discreet Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 [quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' timestamp='1398772394' post='2437396'] I couldn't resist going back to Rose Morris, opening the box and asking the first chap in front of his manager " Do you have a hard case for my new Hohner B2A bass?" The expression on his face was priceless. [/quote] Great - that kind of joy happens far too rarely. I usually think of what I should have done about a day later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notable9 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I'm not surprised at the attitude of some retailers. You've got to see all of this from their point of view. Can you imagine running a green grocers with customers coming in and trying the fruit leaving apples, oranges and bananas left half eaten on the side.....I know that sounds ridiculous but the analogy kinda stacks up. Its Saturday afternoon and a group of spotty youf walk in and one grabs a brand new 1500 quid bass of the wall and starts hammering on it, and yes and he's wearing a buckle, and a fashion jacket covered in bits and bobs, and you just know he ain't gonna buy that thing. I can only imagine it must be a a very difficult balancing act running a music shop where you have to let customers try things which at the end of the day need to be sold, and trying to keep your stock in tiptop condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='notable9' timestamp='1399023182' post='2440020'] I'm not surprised at the attitude of some retailers. You've got to see all of this from their point of view. Can you imagine running a green grocers with customers coming in and trying the fruit leaving apples, oranges and bananas left half eaten on the side.....I know that sounds ridiculous but the analogy kinda stacks up. Its Saturday afternoon and a group of spotty youf walk in and one grabs a brand new 1500 quid bass of the wall and starts hammering on it, and yes and he's wearing a buckle, and a fashion jacket covered in bits and bobs, and you just know he ain't gonna buy that thing. I can only imagine it must be a a very difficult balancing act running a music shop where you have to let customers try things which at the end of the day need to be sold, and trying to keep your stock in tiptop condition. [/quote] I see where you're coming from...but frankly I don't agree. Bits of my job are really hard. That doesn't mean I don't bother my arse when it comes to working. Sometimes I have to do things that aren't fun, aren't easy, and aren't very rewarding---but thats why I get paid to do it instead of being a volunteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1399023752' post='2440034'] I see where you're coming from...but frankly I don't agree. Bits of my job are really hard. That doesn't mean I don't bother my arse when it comes to working. Sometimes I have to do things that aren't fun, aren't easy, and aren't very rewarding---but thats why I get paid to do it instead of being a volunteer. [/quote] It's hard to get the picture with music retail sometimes as it's such a different retail environment in some ways but similar in others. At the end of the day, music retailers have numerous reps who constantly require the purchase of new products (through buy-ins or minimum dealership requirements) which often hinder the customers experience without them realising. Firstly, having a company dictate which models and stock you have to keep in store in order to continue being a dealer, you often don't have more obscure models in stock which often annoys some customers as they then often can't find it in ANY stores to try before they buy (and are expected to buy blind!). Secondly, head offices of music retailers are sales driven. In order to have funds to constantly buy new stock, you have to sell stuff. This means sales targets and staff who are employed to SELL. As a manager who is responsible for a SALES team who have to hit certain figures, do you honestly think they'll encourage their sales staff to spend 2 hours with a group of 15 year olds wanting to try (thrash) a £3k Les Paul and ignore customers who actually want to make a purchase?! Of course not. And whilst those 15 year olds are the future buyers, board members and senior management want money in the tills TODAY, not in 10 years time. It's sad that these pressures create an often frustrating environment but the attitude of the sales staff is often born from the pressures to sell that they get from above. Having worked in music retail, there's nothing more annoying than talking to a customer who asks for something really specific and cool and you don't have it in stock because it wasn't part of the stocking plan and then you HAVE to say (whilst hating yourself for being THAT guy), 'Im sorry we don't have it in stock but we can order it for you'.... Edited May 2, 2014 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1399025666' post='2440067'] Secondly, head offices of music retailers are sales driven. In order to have funds to constantly buy new stock, you have to sell stuff. This means sales targets and staff who are employed to SELL. As a manager who is responsible for a SALES team who have to hit certain figures, do you honestly think they'll encourage their sales staff to spend 2 hours with a group of 15 year olds wanting to try (thrash) a £3k Les Paul and ignore customers who actually want to make a purchase?! Of course not. And whilst those 15 year olds are the future buyers, board members and senior management want money in the tills TODAY, not in 10 years time. It's sad that these pressures create an often frustrating environment but the attitude of the sales staff is often born from the pressures to sell that they get from above. [/quote] Except the common complaint about music shops isn't that you get the hard sell. Its that the staff are unhelpful, rude, and seemingly uninterested in selling you [i]anything[/i]. If someone at my work asks me to do something for them, I don't keep them standing at my desk for 10 minutes before shrugging and giving them the brush off! I'm not a teenager. I'm a 30-something who dresses reasonably well. I always ask (politely) if its ok to try gear. I don't mind being asked to remove a belt or jacket before playing. And still---still---I get left standing like a chump for 15 minutes whilst the grumpy gits behind the till stand around chatting despite telling you "yep, I'll just get you a cable, with you in a minute..." [quote]Having worked in music retail, there's nothing more annoying than talking to a customer who asks for something really specific and cool and you don't have it in stock because it wasn't part of the stocking plan and then you HAVE to say (whilst hating yourself for being THAT guy), 'Im sorry we don't have it in stock but we can order it for you'.... [/quote] That probably is annoying, but if a customer asks you for something and you tell them you'll phone them when you get it in (like in the first post in the thread) then you're doing something seriously wrong if you then don't (like in the first post in the thread). I understand that retail is a tough gig. But even given the constraints they operate under most music shops do an utterly pisspoor job. Edited May 2, 2014 by uncle psychosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Also important to remember that those spotty youths who just come in to try out gear don't stay young and penniless forever. It's no coincidence that the local shops that offered the best service when I had little money got a lot of my custom when I had lots of disposable income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1399028739' post='2440122'] Also important to remember that those spotty youths who just come in to try out gear don't stay young and penniless forever. It's no coincidence that the local shops that offered the best service when I had little money got a lot of my custom when I had lots of disposable income. [/quote] True. I completely agree. But music retail doesn't. They want money in the till ASAP. They don't think about customer loyalty or return business which is crazy because music is probably the best retail area for return business as there is HUGE scope for additional accessories (pedals, strings, gig bags, music etc etc etc!) or upgrades/additional instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1399028739' post='2440122'] Also important to remember that those spotty youths who just come in to try out gear don't stay young and penniless forever. It's no coincidence that the local shops that offered the best service when I had little money got a lot of my custom when I had lots of disposable income. [/quote] However the pressure is to pay the rent this year, not down the road when the spotty youths may have money but equally may not still be interested in the guitars they were thrashing today or even living in the same town. It's a hard balancing act, not helped by the people who use the shops to try out instruments that they will then buy online (no price matching isn't always possible and strange how when you are cheaper than the net no-one ever asks you to price match). Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudpup Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1398522555' post='2434957'] I went in my nearest shop for the first (and last) time about a year ago. I was after some flats or tapewounds and they didn't carry any. I asked about ordering some to try on the Bex4 I just got and what he thought would sound good, flats or tapes, he said they would all make it sound old and dead and not to bother, so I didn't, bother ordering anything from him, got some Fender nylon tapes from whoever was cheapest on the net. From point of view is, if you don't want to help or compete then don't grumble when you have no customers. On the flipside I went in a shop in Plymouth, can't remember the name, and they had a very good selection of strings, round, flat, nylon, etc. Will be using them again. Edit to add the name of the good shop - Sound Unlimited [/quote] Looks like your local did try to help you didnt he? You asked his opinion, he gave it. Whats the problem? Not his fault you disagree is it? And for my taste, tapes or flats do make a bass sound dead so he was bang on. Wont be long before no one can ask an opinion face to face if everyone is buying and researching on the web. The shops will be gone and all advice will be from people who spend too much time on forums (like myself) who only have eperience of gear they own themselves. This probably sounds a bit of a spiky post but its not intended to offend btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1399094656' post='2440933'] strange how when you are cheaper than the net no-one ever asks you to price match. Steve [/quote] Love this - going to share it with my music shop owning mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1399099518' post='2440947'] Looks like your local did try to help you didnt he? You asked his opinion, he gave it. Whats the problem? Not his fault you disagree is it? And for my taste, tapes or flats do make a bass sound dead so he was bang on. Wont be long before no one can ask an opinion face to face if everyone is buying and researching on the web. The shops will be gone and all advice will be from people who spend too much time on forums (like myself��) who only have eperience of gear they own themselves. This probably sounds a bit of a spiky post but its not intended to offend btw �� [/quote] There are ways of presenting an opinion to not sound such a douchebag though. Telling someone not to bother is ridiculous. The best niche shop(I'd consider any music shop niche) is page 45 in Nottingham, a small independant comic shop, the staff in ere are brilliant, I'd go there over he internet any day. For our musical needs hotbox is again a small independant shop and the staff at again brilliant. Can't fault them. Not had any bad experiences in shops must but the generic shops just stock the typical fender, squires and a few Ibbys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1398522555' post='2434957'] I went in my nearest shop for the first (and last) time about a year ago. I was after some flats or tapewounds and they didn't carry any. I asked about ordering some to try on the Bex4 I just got and what he thought would sound good, flats or tapes, he said they would all make it sound old and dead and not to bother, so I didn't, bother ordering anything from him, got some Fender nylon tapes from whoever was cheapest on the net. From point of view is, if you don't want to help or compete then don't grumble when you have no customers. [/quote] The smart salesman would have ordered in and sold you a set of flats and tape wounds and hoped for another sale of stock round wounds if you decided you didn't like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 A newish shop opened up fairly near to me so I popped in as I needed a bass fixing the guy was very polite and his price was reasonable for the repair While I was there I had a quick look around and there was only 3 basses and a few sets of strings and some books and I thought they were expensive nearly double the cost of an online retailer for example there was a playalong bass tab book in there that I was going to buy from there but I looked at the price an it was £18.95 but it is only £9 odd on Amazon so he lost a sale there I would not of minded paying a couple of quid more for the book in his shop but I was not going to pay double for it and I doubt other people would either , so I doubt I would buy anything from there unless I really needed it but I would go back for repairs as I liked the guys attitude so it restored my faith in music shops a little I think if he expands and does more bass stuff at a sensible price I would go there and buy more stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Once upon a time we only had horses for transport and everything was fine and a whole infrastructure, way of life and acceptance had built up around them. Then along came the car and completely changed everything - jobs were lost ( and different ones gained), ways of life disappeared, public acceptance was upset and confused, enthusiasts for the new possibilities emerged. Amid all the turmoil and new consensus gradually emerged from the chaos and things settled down. With a new transport infrastructure, new ways of life and new public acceptance. There are umpteen similar examples where something radically new has upset the established order of things and a new consensus has always emerged and, I'd suggest, it has always turned out to be generally better . . . Otherwise, why would people accept and embrace it? The internet is just another in a very long and venerable history of 'new things' that have had profound effects on the existing order of things, and those things have had to adapt and change. Fortunately, human beings are intelligent and adaptable so I've every confidence we'll get through these changes to musical retailing, given a bit of time and grumbling along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1399112739' post='2441109'] ... I've every confidence we'll get through these changes to musical retailing, given a bit of time and [font=courier new,courier,monospace]a galaxy-class sh*tload of unbridled bitching, moaning, whining and[/font] grumbling along the way. [/quote] Fixato, hombre. The fact is, 30% of the general public are morons. 30% are just deeply unpleasant. Another 30% are unpleasant morons. I wouldn't work in retail if you paid me a king's ransom and all the pickles I could eat. On so many occasions I've observed other music shop customers so brutally swollen with their self-importance, their ignorance and their chippy sense of 'I'm the customer and I expect a blow-job' that I've taken shelter behind a screen in case they explode all over the emporium. To be faced with a succession of blithering opinionated gum-boils poking the merchandise, boring one rigid with stultifying anecdotes about their hobby band and then asking for a 'best price' with no remote intention of buying anything would propel any reasonable man into the kind of situation where subsequent reports conclude with the phrase '... before turning the gun on himself'. Edited May 3, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1399145771' post='2441553'] Fixato, hombre. The fact is, 30% of the general public are morons. 30% are just deeply unpleasant. Another 30% are unpleasant morons. I wouldn't work in retail if you paid me a king's ransom and all the pickles I could eat. On so many occasions I've observed other music shop customers so brutally swollen with their self-importance, their ignorance and their chippy sense of 'I'm the customer and I expect a blow-job' that I've taken shelter behind a screen in case they explode all over the emporium. To be faced with a succession of blithering opinionated gum-boils poking the merchandise, boring one rigid with stultifying anecdotes about their hobby band and then asking for a 'best price' with no remote intention of buying anything would propel any reasonable man into the kind of situation where subsequent reports conclude with the phrase '... before turning the gun on himself'. [/quote] Great post! You should see a professional photographer in action in the days of camera shops too. All of the above tossery in a safari jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I've given up on shops to be honest. The nearest one, the stock is woeful bass wise and the service isn't all that tbh, Mansons is an hour away, but there again bass wise I wasn't impressed last time I went there. Actual basses, ok but Amos and cabs, very wanting. That's it. So I shop online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1399649546' post='2446331'] Mansons is an hour away, but there again bass wise I wasn't impressed last time I went there. Actual basses, ok but Amos and cabs, very wanting. That's it. So I shop online. [/quote] You should be in luck, there are plenty of online dating sites these days. Specifically finding an Amos may reduce your chances a little but I'm sure he's out there somewhere waiting for your call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1399650632' post='2446350'] Specifically finding an Amos may reduce your chances a little but I'm sure he's out there somewhere waiting for your call [/quote] [size=3]Where's Seth? Try asking Ernie Shuttleworth... (sniffs frostily)[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1399650632' post='2446350'] You should be in luck, there are plenty of online dating sites these days. Specifically finding an Amos may reduce your chances a little but I'm sure he's out there somewhere waiting for your call [/quote] ooops! I hate this phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E sharp Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1399653625' post='2446393'] [size=3]Where's Seth? Try asking Ernie Shuttleworth... (sniffs frostily)[/size] [/quote] Saw that coming a mile off , but still made me laugh - good call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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