TC Electronic is definately better than Markbass !!

[sykilz]

The BH500 head I have is great for hard rockers I find, although the one time I played through MB stuff I liked that too. Is the BH series also not the advertised wattage or just the more compact stuff? To my old knackered ears the BH500 is the loudest amp I ever owned, and the tone is great for me!

[markorbit]

Not tried the RH750 but I was underwhelmed by the tone of the RH450. As far as Markbass heads go, I've found my favourite with the discontinued TA-501. An LM3 into an Aguilar SL112 also sounded great, better than playing it through a Markbass cab.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398088899' post='2430269']
So it's only twice as powerful as the RH450 then?

And 20% cheaper

Sorry - couldn't resist
[/quote] I do find it bizarre really, when I started I thought about 200 trace elliot watts would be all I would ever need.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

The RH750 is plenty loud enough - never had an issue with the volume it could output just the tone!

Markbass LM3 into Bergantino 1x12 still takes some beating IMHO but am liking the EBS Reidmar into EBS 2x12 for something completely different!

[quote name='markorbit' timestamp='1398097829' post='2430424']
Not tried the RH750 but I was underwhelmed by the tone of the RH450. As far as Markbass heads go, I've found my favourite with the discontinued TA-501. An LM3 into an Aguilar SL112 also sounded great, better than playing it through a Markbass cab.
[/quote]

[molan]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1398098254' post='2430436']
The RH750 is plenty loud enough - never had an issue with the volume it could output just the tone!

[/quote]

I think it's rated at about 395w so it should have a fair bit more heft than the RH450.

I don't really understand all the tech stuff but I've read a load of stuff that talks about how the sound of the Rh series is very heavily compressed to make them sound artificially 'louder' than they really are. Whilst this translates into a very immediate and lively tone in a shop environment it seems the over-compression kills the live tone.

To be honest I thought all this was hogwash until I took one out on a gig and my sound absolutely sucked - the presets I'd lovingly set up at home were lifeless and dead and the only way I could get anything decent was to push the mids on my bass through the one 'clean' pre-set I'd left open for emergencies.

In general I'd heard the 750 was a much better head than the 450 but I think it really benefits from being used with TC's own speakers which are, unsurprisingly, designed to match the heads.

[JapanAxe]

I'm not going to argue with cliffyspliff, as that's the Classic 450 head that he just bought from me! I would still have it except for the fact that I can barely justify having 3 bass heads, let alone 4!

Sean, glad you're enjoying it mate. It worked for me and I'm pleased it's working for you

[xgsjx]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1398098065' post='2430432']
I do find it bizarre really, when I started I thought about 200 trace elliot watts would be all I would ever need.
[/quote]

It probably was & still is, had it not been for that damned gas!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398088899' post='2430269']
So it's only twice as powerful as the RH450 then?

And 20% cheaper

Sorry - couldn't resist
[/quote]

Well, on that particular way of assessing wattage of an amp, (e.g. a test by a magazine with no proof that it is 100% correct scientifically or whether indeed that is the best way to do it anyway) yes, you'd get more RMS rated wattage with the LM2/3.

What you would also get is a hard wall limiter, especially at 8 ohms, so when you hit that limiter, that is it. No power compression, just awful clipping. Also, the Markbass master volumes I've tried hit the max volume at roughly 12/1 o'clock. Lot's of manufacturers do this, to make you think you have more master left. With the LM3, I didn't have any more headroom left.

Genz do it differently....eg the volume goes up gradually and you can push and push the modern amps they finished with and they will not clip.

TC also do it differently. You can absolutely hammer the master volume all the way up and it will not clip...it will just get incredibly loud, and like a tube amp, it will naturally 'sag' and compress like playing through a large 8x10/SVT at high volumes.

Different design goals, different tones. Wattage? Volume? The RH450 sounds louder to me.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1398099968' post='2430471']


Well, on that particular way of assessing wattage of an amp, (e.g. a test by a magazine with no proof that it is 100% correct scientifically or whether indeed that is the best way to do it anyway) yes, you'd get more RMS rated wattage with the LM2/3.

What you would also get is a hard wall limiter, especially at 8 ohms, so when you hit that limiter, that is it. No power compression, just awful clipping. Also, the Markbass master volumes I've tried hit the max volume at roughly 12/1 o'clock. Lot's of manufacturers do this, to make you think you have more master left. With the LM3, I didn't have any more headroom left.

Genz do it differently....eg the volume goes up gradually and you can push and push the modern amps they finished with and they will not clip.

TC also do it differently. You can absolutely hammer the master volume all the way up and it will not clip...it will just get incredibly loud, and like a tube amp, it will naturally 'sag' and compress like playing through a large 8x10/SVT at high volumes.

Different design goals, different tones. Wattage? Volume? The RH450 sounds louder to me.
[/quote]

It's obvious to see you do really rate them, so I think it's best that those who disagree, agree to do that, disagree.

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1398098065' post='2430432']
I do find it bizarre really, when I started I thought about 200 trace elliot watts would be all I would ever need.
[/quote]

When i started a 15watt carlsboro combo was my amp.
Prospect of 200watts of trace Elliott and I'd have been frothing at the mouth with excitement.

Nowadays we talk 500watt heads like its totally normal. Has something changed?

[cliffyspliff]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1398099170' post='2430455']
I'm not going to argue with cliffyspliff, as that's the Classic 450 head that he just bought from me! I would still have it except for the fact that I can barely justify having 3 bass heads, let alone 4!

Sean, glad you're enjoying it mate. It worked for me and I'm pleased it's working for you
[/quote]

Yes very pleased Graeme ... I play in a heavy rock covers band and totally agree with the comments that the classic 450 compliments this sort of music.

So if your looking for a tidy bass head and you play heavy rock ... It could just be the thing your looking for

[chrismuzz]

I prefer Markbass to TC massively in terms of tone, but completely agree with the comments about the hard limiting when you push the volume past half way!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1398116715' post='2430709']
When i started a 15watt carlsboro combo was my amp.
Prospect of 200watts of trace Elliott and I'd have been frothing at the mouth with excitement.

Nowadays we talk 500watt heads like its totally normal. Has something changed?
[/quote] it is odd really like someone (alex claber?) was writing that to double the volume of a 100w amp you would need 1000w or so. So I do wonder exactly how much we need - like until I manage to sell it I've got a separate pre and power amp set up... and most PA power amps would blow my speakers if I went more than half way up.... so we have more efficient neo speakers, more power in our heads.... do we all play that much louder?

[molan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1398099968' post='2430471']


Well, on that particular way of assessing wattage of an amp, (e.g. a test by a magazine with no proof that it is 100% correct scientifically or whether indeed that is the best way to do it anyway) yes, you'd get more RMS rated wattage with the LM2/3.

What you would also get is a hard wall limiter, especially at 8 ohms, so when you hit that limiter, that is it. No power compression, just awful clipping. Also, the Markbass master volumes I've tried hit the max volume at roughly 12/1 o'clock. Lot's of manufacturers do this, to make you think you have more master left. With the LM3, I didn't have any more headroom left.

Genz do it differently....eg the volume goes up gradually and you can push and push the modern amps they finished with and they will not clip.

TC also do it differently. You can absolutely hammer the master volume all the way up and it will not clip...it will just get incredibly loud, and like a tube amp, it will naturally 'sag' and compress like playing through a large 8x10/SVT at high volumes.

Different design goals, different tones. Wattage? Volume? The RH450 sounds louder to me.
[/quote]

I think Alex Claber kinda summed it up for me in an earlier discussion about TC heads and the power/loudness equation:

"Just because some bassists think that doesn't make it true. If you like what the TC amp does as it runs out of power then you'll think it's loud. If you don't then you'll think it's overly compressed and lacking in deep bottom. It's just like how a lot of people think 300W valve amps are really really loud but personally I find them lacking in clean oomph. We have lots of happy customers using the TC amps but I don't recommend them universally because of the sound of their APM system.

Clever technology by TC. Disappointed by their marketing"

I'm firmly in the 'overly compressed and lacking in deep bottom' camp (and I'm not alone) but obviously a lot of people like their core tone and how they sound at the top of the output range - of course, it's a good think we all don't think the same way or the world would be a much duller place

Edited April 21, 2014 by molan

[martthebass]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1398118581' post='2430734']
I prefer Markbass to TC massively in terms of tone, but completely agree with the comments about the hard limiting when you push the volume past half way!
[/quote]

I've not noticed that on the LM3 Chris....is that an 8Ohm thing? I usually run a 4 Ohm load with mine, but to be fair my ears start to bleed and stop functioning if I get much past 2 on the master..:-)

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398118928' post='2430741']
I think Alex Claber kinda summed it up for me in an earlier discussion about TC heads and the power/loudness equation:

"Just because some bassists think that doesn't make it true. If you like what the TC amp does as it runs out of power then you'll think it's loud. If you don't then you'll think it's overly compressed and lacking in deep bottom. It's just like how a lot of people think 300W valve amps are really really loud but personally I find them lacking in clean oomph. We have lots of happy customers using the TC amps but I don't recommend them universally because of the sound of their APM system.

Clever technology by TC. Disappointed by their marketing"

I'm firmly in the 'overly compressed and lacking in deep bottom' camp (and I'm not alone) but obviously a lot of people like their core tone and how they sound at the top of the output range - of course, it's a good think we all don't think the same way or the world would be a much duller place
[/quote] i guess it also depends on your cab - I imagine a RH750 through a sealed 8x10 or some other vintage cab would feel different in the way it uses power than through some modern designed cab (like barefaced).
I do wonder how much of the compressed sound of the TC stuff is the power section or the preamp - anyone stuck something else into the power section of a TC amp to see how it does?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1398119592' post='2430750']
i guess it also depends on your cab - I imagine a RH750 through a sealed 8x10 or some other vintage cab would feel different in the way it uses power than through some modern designed cab (like barefaced).
I do wonder how much of the compressed sound of the TC stuff is the power section or the preamp - anyone stuck something else into the power section of a TC amp to see how it does?
[/quote]

That would be interesting! I'd like to see the power section/module tested without the ABM.

I don't like super deep low bass. Barefaced cabs can clearly handle it but I find a lot of deep low bass muddies the tone, sounds too 'enveloping' and makes a mess on stage. It's why the 8x10 might be an old/not very efficient design, but the low end is just right for stages. Leave the deep lows to the PA.

That's just me. Maybe if I was playing gospel/dub/reggae/ things would be different.

I prefer a tight quick punchy low end which is why the TC and Genz work for me

[xgsjx]

The wattage of an amp doesn't mean very much on its own.
There's been many bands gigging with a 200w amp on big stages throught an 8x10 & I've gigged with 30 watts at my disposal in vlage halls.
As long as you can move enough air & get a sound that you like.

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1398146441' post='2430817']
The wattage of an amp doesn't mean very much on its own.
[/quote]

Well, no - my 100W valve amp is apparently much louder than my 500W SS amp. And so on.

[CamdenRob]

I've never been a fan of markbass stuff from the couple of times I've tried out various rigs... It's not really worked for me, despite obviously being quality kit.

However, I recently sold a little eden 112 and the girl who bought it brought a new markbass micro head to try with it, 300watt something or other I can't remember the exact model, it sounded really good. Had a couple of filters on it bringing the sound from warm and thumpy to bright and punchy, seemed very versatile to me.

I've never tried out any TC stuff with my gear so can't really comment on them.. although they do seem very popular, I've seen loads of their 2x10 cabs around.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1398119257' post='2430747']
I've not noticed that on the LM3 Chris....is that an 8Ohm thing? I usually run a 4 Ohm load with mine, but to be fair my ears start to bleed and stop functioning if I get much past 2 on the master..:-)
[/quote]

Possibly. I've rarely used my head through anything other than a single 8 ohm cab. But then I did read that Markbass were planning to improve the inbuilt limiter for the LM3.

[badboy1984]

I use a TC BC212, sounded ok to me and the most important thing is they are light as hell for 2x12. If you give me a MB 2x10 or 2x15 i think i would use that instead. The most stupid and most regret thing i ever done was to trade my Little Mark 250 and Markbass 2x10 HF cab for a ampeg stack ....... should of kept it and I probably still be using it .......

[Musicman20]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1398153952' post='2430876']
Possibly. I've rarely used my head through anything other than a single 8 ohm cab. But then I did read that Markbass were planning to improve the inbuilt limiter for the LM3.
[/quote]

The idea behind the LM3 was meant to be an improved limiter and a DI volume. The DI volume does feature, but the limiter improvment never came about.

[Musicman20]

I would like to add that Markbass really did change the marketplace, and I have a lot of respect for them! Just because I don't use them and rate other manufacturers, does not mean I am against what they do.

I would still like to try the TTE500.

If they ever want input from previous customers, bring back the F500 at a slightly lower price and design an F800, to compete with the likes of Tercamp.

The F500 was great. Oh, and a LM4 with a new limiter and perhaps semi para mids.

They do sound awesome with a Stingray.

[fred72]

[sub]Read this thread with some trepidation, and a little concern the further I read! Am new to the bass scene but have experience on 6 string ('normal' guitar - is that how it's distinguished?!), live sound and recording. Needed a bass rig for a new band - looked at MarkBass, but just didn't like the aesthetic - call me fickle. Looked at Aguilar TH320 + SL12 cab, lovely sound, obvious quality, just couldn't get my head around stooping down so low... tried a Hartke 500 something (had a valve pre) and really liked, but thought I could do better... came across the RH450 with RH212 cab and it really ticked all the boxes (and then some) so I bought it! Previous research had come up with loads of reviews saying how it punched through the mix and was so loud it kicked arse against guitar stacks etc. Seems like TC have created a great deal of controversy with all this Bass 2.0 malarky though!![/sub]

[sub]I'm really fussy about sound and the cab and head in the guitar shop sounded superb... got a Sterling by MM SB14 and the eq on this coupled with the amp/cab and a nice set of nickle strings sounds sweet with lots of variation... I've not gigged with the full band yet, but I must admit I was practicing with the guitarist yesterday... he was playing through my little BadCat 5w amp and even though I was turned way down I had to crank the treble on the SB14 all the way up to cut through... we shall see... hoping it will do the job, we're only a 3 piece, so I'm thinking there will be plenty of room in the frequencies we're kicking out for the RH450 to sound its best.[/sub]

[sub]Cheers[/sub]