How to survive as a musician without a 9-5 normal job?

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1398531681' post='2435041']
If You want reality, ask your self this.....
How many people personally do i know that have bought their house from just playing music ???

I have been playing for 30 odd years and pro for 15 of them..... and i personally know 2 !!

And to put that into reality ...one of them is a busker who has and still does busks all over the world
[/quote]
I've been a pro bass player for over 20 years and most of my colleagues have paid mortgages from music jobs, location is important. The vast majority of music work in the UK centres around London.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1398626086' post='2435964']
I [i]never[/i] found I was too tired for music after work. If anything, the prospect would energise and enliven me as the work day progressed.
[/quote]

One company I worked for was based in a big old country house on the outskirts of London and had so much spare space that we used it for band rehearsals in the evenings.

[funkgod]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1398627809' post='2436001']
I've been a pro bass player for over 20 years and most of my colleagues have paid mortgages from music jobs, location is important. The vast majority of music work in the UK centres around London.
[/quote]
"The vast majority of music work in the UK centres around London"
so it would seem .... BUGGER,
Im in the northwest, trying to make a living doing just music here is hard,
on saying that, if i had my life again i would do it all again ( and still do!)
the memories and the buzz as you know is something cash cannot pay for.

But if you are a young player wondering how to try and make it work, loads of great advice above.
and my bit of good advice to add to them is...[u] [b]product is king[/b][/u].
if you play in say a cover band its great while you are out playing
and getting paid, but for the long term[b],[/b] learn to write songs as soon as you can,
and find ways of getting them heard.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1398632575' post='2436088']
"The vast majority of music work in the UK centres around London"
so it would seem .... BUGGER,
Im in the northwest, trying to make a living doing just music here is hard,
on saying that, if i had my life again i would do it all again ( and still do!)
the memories and the buzz as you know is something cash cannot pay for.

But if you are a young player wondering how to try and make it work, loads of great advice above.
and my bit of good advice to add to them is...[u] [b]product is king[/b][/u].
if you play in say a cover band its great while you are out playing
and getting paid, but for the long term[b],[/b] learn to write songs as soon as you can,
and find ways of getting them heard.
[/quote]
Keep heart mate, I went to college and started my career in Liverpool and then went to live in the busier Manchester scene. It wasn't long before too many trips down the M6 made it the right decision to up sticks (with family and mortgage in tow... 3 kids) today I've done day 1 of rehearsals on a show that may well transfer to the West end and complete a UK tour. All paying my mortgage

[funkgod]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1398632812' post='2436095']
Keep heart mate, I went to college and started my career in Liverpool and then went to live in the busier Manchester scene. It wasn't long before too many trips down the M6 made it the right decision to up sticks (with family and mortgage in tow... 3 kids) today I've done day 1 of rehearsals on a show that may well transfer to the West end and complete a UK tour. All paying my mortgage
[/quote]
Thats great inspirational news to hear, well done, and good luck,

[heminder]

Title of the thread should be "How to survive, period?"

Jobs are crappy in every industry. I, as well [i]all[/i] of my friends, finished uni just as the recession hit and to date none of us are in work. I did a course afterwards in electronic engineering, but still no work. I'm now trying to get freelance jobs as an industrial designer but still no work. The government likes to release rosy figures of "decreasing unemployment" to celebrate themselves, but we all know what politicians are like.

I never got into music expecting any kind of work out of it. I feel for musicians since they not only get screwed over trying to find work, but also by the record labels and industry itself when they actually [i]get[/i] work. Then they have the cheek to say that they "protect" musicians when they advocate things like SOPA and ACTA.

Edited April 27, 2014 by heminder

[lowdown]

Some of the talk from this thread seems to be about 'making it', 'the dream'.
Full time Musicians (mostly these days) make the bulk of their earnings from
Professional pit/show west end/touring work (You can always dep it out to live your dream).
Add on top of that, teaching (if you are good at it), any depping on other functions/gigs/cruise/acts etc,
Sessions (they are still out there), media music work/library/production companies,
Orchestrating, transcribing for midi file companies, copying (Sibelius/Finale etc) for show companies
And school Orchestra/band parts.
Music tech teaching/assisting..the list goes on and on.
A lot of this of would need sight reading skills, good knowledge of theory, good ears etc,
But that's why successful working musicians work, they have these skills (and contacts of course).
You need to think out of the box, the work is there for freelancers,

Bottom line, it can be hard work, but can/does have good financial rewards.
Most of the people I know and work with/for have mortgages or houses paid for,
Family's, holidays and don't live on Pot Noodles or eat their pets.

Just my view from another corner.
Carry on.

Edited April 28, 2014 by lowdown

[ML94]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1398632812' post='2436095']
Keep heart mate, I went to college and started my career in Liverpool and then went to live in the busier Manchester scene. It wasn't long before too many trips down the M6 made it the right decision to up sticks (with family and mortgage in tow... 3 kids) today I've done day 1 of rehearsals on a show that may well transfer to the West end and complete a UK tour. All paying my mortgage
[/quote]

Stuff like this really keeps guys like me who are young, upcoming bass players. Going to music college this year and really hoping to learn my craft and be the best I can be. Having someone like yourself prove that it is possible is an inspiration !

[discreet]

[quote name='britpoprule' timestamp='1398446026' post='2434270']
...I try to avoid getting a normal 9-5 job that would probably kill the dream.
[/quote]

Going back to this point briefly, it's more likely that a music-related job will kill the dream - In the sense that to make money you will probably need to be involved with styles and genres of music you wouldn't be into given the choice, or be involved in teaching etc when you don't particularly like doing that.

When I was regularly composing music for TV and film I found that the creative process became a bit formulaic and the necessity to constantly come up with ideas was having a negative effect on the music I really wanted to do - music that I wasn't being paid for at that time.

So you can get a bit burnt-out if you're not careful. It's often better to keep wage-earning and creative music-making separate - then if you hate your job at least it's not affecting the creative side of your life.

After all, the dream is to be paid well for producing the music you're really into - isn't it?

Edited April 28, 2014 by discreet

[the boy]

You've got to be good,
You've got to be known,
You've got to be hardworking.

If you have these three attributes you will make a living. Beyond that it's mostly luck. When I say known, I mean on the circuit you want to work in.

[discreet]

Mmm... Pot Noodle.

[lowdown]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398678502' post='2436372']
Mmm... Pot Noodle.
[/quote]

Is that Cambodian Fret wa#"ing ?

[discreet]

[size=4][quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1398680004' post='2436393'][/size]
Is that Cambodian Fret wa#"ing ?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes, it is.

[icastle]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398676218' post='2436336']
Going back to this point briefly, it's more likely that a music-related job will kill the dream - In the sense that to make money you will probably need to be involved with styles and genres of music you wouldn't be into given the choice, or be involved in teaching etc when you don't particularly like doing that.
[/quote]

+1

At best I get to play stuff that I could take or leave, but generally I play types of music that I absolutely loathe.

I'm a good actor.

[discreet]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1398680547' post='2436401']
I'm a good actor.
[/quote]

Perhaps you're in the wrong business then, love? [size=4] [/size]

[oggiesnr]

I'm sorry but singer/songwriters are not an endangered species, there's thousands of them. Lot's of them are also really good guitarists. However the number of them that can write songs that people want to hear more than once and put on a good show is severely limited BUT unless you're in the that select group then making a living a living as a singer/songwriter is unlikely to happen.

On the plus side, if you write good songs there are always people who want new songs. If you've a good voice there are always bands that need singers so there is hope. At the very least there is always busking but busking songs that no-one's ever heard of is a losing proposition.

It really does come down to taking a long, hard look at your skill set and your skill level. What are your strengths and weaknesses, what can you improve?

As far as jobs go, a genuine 9-5 (with a steady pay check) beats casual bar work anytime. You don't need to turn down many shifts because they clash with gigs for the phone to stop ringing.

Good luck with what you decide,

Steve

[icastle]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398680670' post='2436403']
Perhaps you're in the wrong business then, love? [size=4] [/size]
[/quote]

I definitely am, but with no FT work I can't afford to hold on to 'artistic integrity'.

[EliasMooseblaster]

As someone trying to effect a similar career shift myself, this has made for very interesting reading. To the OP: I'm not in the singer-songwriter side of things myself, but I read this article this morning. Won't teach you how to make ends meet, and some of the points may seem blindingly obvious, but it might help with the singer-songwriter act: https://musicclout.com/contents/article-418-why-your-acoustic-show-doesnt-have-to-suck.aspx?utm_source=Potential+Members&utm_campaign=cde7d1d1ea-Acoustic_Show4_25_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4bb296eccb-cde7d1d1ea-304033113

[flyfisher]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1398681200' post='2436408']

It really does come down to taking a long, hard look at your skill set and your skill level. What are your strengths and weaknesses, what can you improve?

[/quote]

This.

I've loved playing in bands since I was at school but I've never been under any impression I was good enough to make a living from it, or that I was dedicated enough to put in the immense aount of time and effort to become good enough (even assuming that would be guaranteed, which I seriously doubt).

This thread seems to show that even for really good players, it's really tough to make a good living and I've never understood why anyone would consciously put themselves at such a disadvantage in life. It's not even as if the choice is all-or-nothing - there is no need to give up playing in bands just because you get a 'proper job' . . . . whatever that means. In fact, you may even enjoy it more because there is no financial pressure and you can concentrate on simply enjoying yourself for its own sake.

When we played our first international gig a few years ago (well, Wales is another country isn't it? ), we played with a great sounding covers band headlining the gig - the singer was a GP, the drummer was an architect and one of the others was an accountant. Judging by the cars they turned up in, none of them were worrying about where they would find a few bob for a new instrument or amp.

I'm sure that many people would consider such outrageous behaviour as 'selling out' or not having any 'integrity', which is fine as an opinion, but integrity isn't going to pay the bills is it?

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1398681420' post='2436413']
As someone trying to effect a similar career shift myself, this has made for very interesting reading. To the OP: I'm not in the singer-songwriter side of things myself, but I read this article this morning. Won't teach you how to make ends meet, and some of the points may seem blindingly obvious, but it might help with the singer-songwriter act: [url="https://musicclout.com/contents/article-418-why-your-acoustic-show-doesnt-have-to-suck.aspx?utm_source=Potential+Members&utm_campaign=cde7d1d1ea-Acoustic_Show4_25_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4bb296eccb-cde7d1d1ea-304033113"]https://musicclout.c...1d1ea-304033113[/url]
[/quote]

Good article. The other implied point is that the artist went out of their way to add to their skill set.

Steve

[ambient]

What I would say is if it's your dream then do it, try it.

If it doesn't work out then you've at least tried, better to try than to spend the rest of your life wondering [i]what if, or if onl[/i]y.

Like people have pointed out, there're a load of things to do as well as the singer/songwriter, all of which keep you employed within the music business.
There's a songwriter course where I study, I know some of them organise a songwriting circle once a fortnight. That's maybe something else to add to the portfolio. Charge people a small amount for coming in etc. Kind of like an open mic, but for original material only.

Edited April 28, 2014 by ambient

[discreet]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1398681222' post='2436409']
I can't afford to hold on to 'artistic integrity'.
[/quote]

Yes... 'artistic integrity' is very expensive, unless you're very lucky. Or very determined (i.e. stubborn). Or both.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1398686126' post='2436492']
What I would say is if it's your dream then do it, try it.

If it doesn't work out then you've at least tried, better to try than to spend the rest of your life wondering [i]what if, or if onl[/i]y.

Like people have pointed out, there're a load of things to do as well as the singer/songwriter, all of which keep you employed within the music business.
There's a songwriter course where I study, I know some of them organise a songwriting circle once a fortnight. That's maybe something else to add to the portfolio. Charge people a small amount for coming in etc. Kind of like an open mic, but for original material only.
[/quote]


Seems to me there are two things going on here - wanting to be a singer/songwriter and wanting to make a living from being a singer/songwriter.

Perhaps some people feel that it's only by making a living from such things that actually validates their material in some way? But I know quite a few people who are prolific singer/songwriters and gain immense pleasure from performing in folk clubs and other social or open-mic occasions. Why does money have to be the only measure of merit?

There are plenty of creative 'hobbies' (if that's what you call something you don't make money from) that people pursue to very high standards of excellence - photography, painting, writing, etc - without ever thinking of making it their only form of income. Are they all 'selling out' simply because they prefer to earn their actual living doing something else?