Best musician is the bass player

[icastle]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398799195' post='2437756']
Uh-oh. I think I must be the only one on the entire forum who doesn't like Snarky Puppy.
[/quote]

Don't worry, I thought it was one of those alchopop things until I looked it up.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398799195' post='2437756']
Uh-oh. I think I must be the only one on the entire forum who doesn't like Snarky Puppy.
[/quote]

TBH I think they are massively underwhelming too...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1398802804' post='2437819']
TBH I think they are massively underwhelming too...
[/quote]

Yeah..! They even keep all their clothes on..!

[BassTractor]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398799195' post='2437756']
Uh-oh. I think I must be the only one on the entire forum who doesn't like Snarky Puppy.
[/quote]

Until this vid, I thought I was the only one.
Now, you are.

[TimR]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1398757917' post='2437189']
The bass player has to work with rhythm as well as harmony and dynamics and communication and sound etc. The story (true or false!!)about John Paul Jones explaining to Jimmy Page about the difference between a third and a minor third (or something like that)sums it up for me. JPJ was initially the more advanced musician in that band having established himself as a musician before he was a great bassist.
[/quote]

Good post.

Ha. That's happened to me. When you have to explain to the guitarists that it's a minor chord and you're not playing the root, you're playing the minor third as it's an inversion. They look at you open mouthed and you realise that it's you that is the best musician in the band and it may be time to find another band...

[discreet]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1398803931' post='2437845']
They look at you open mouthed and you realise that it's you that is the best musician in the band and it may be time to find another band...
[/quote]

Same happened to me when I explained, 'This is in A'.

[JTUK]

Why do people automatically think that a little knowledge elevates someone within a band?
It may well do, but it really depends on the whole package. And just because someone
plays another instrument means nothing in itself. It all depends how they play and how competent
they are..and there are huge degrees of competence...

Edited April 29, 2014 by JTUK

[RhysP]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398799195' post='2437756']
Uh-oh. I think I must be the only one on the entire forum who doesn't like Snarky Puppy.
[/quote]

I've never even heard of them - what a sh*t name.

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1398806047' post='2437889']
Why do people automatically think that a little knowledge elevates someone within a band?
It may well do, but it really depends on the whole package. And just because someone
plays another instrument means nothing in itself. It all depends how they play and how competent
they are..and there are huge degrees of competence...
[/quote]

It depends on what you mean by knowledge.

I would say knowing how to play music would make you a better player than someone who doesn't know how to play.

In a band situation it's very important to be able to communicate ideas quickly and efficiently. Most of us use traditional methods to do this.

If someone tells me a tune is a 12bar blues progression in A, it's a bit quicker than them showing me every note in the 12 bars and telling me to stick to the three root notes.

A better player isn't necesarily a better musician. It depends on what your definitions are.

[JTUK]

A better player is a better player....
and that guy will find a way to get round the changes because he is that better player.
And their ear and musicaility is what makes them a better player.
I never say theory isn't useful ( it certainly is ) but I know plenty of 'uneducated' players who can walk all
over London pit musicians who can read 'fly-sh*t'
Nothing is so absolute. We have players straight out on music college who are very well trained
and have a decent business head on them, but that does not garauntee or usurp inate talent
and it is that inate talent that you may or may not have that untimately defines you as a player.

Ideally you will and can have both, but sheer talent will get you further than an 'education' IMO
and it is easier to graft on the 'education' that it is to develop a real monster talent of which a large part is
natural..

[icastle]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1398806586' post='2437895']
I've never even heard of them - what a sh*t name.
[/quote]

Oooh - no need to be such a snarky puppy about it...

[TimR]

One would hope that the 'talented musican' would know the difference between a major and a minor, even if he couldn't tell you which was which and why.

Yes there are pit musicians that can read fly sh*t but sound sterile. That's theatre for you though, and why Simon Cowell gets rid of the pub singers, theatre singers and cruise ship performers that people pay so much money to go and see. There's a few productions that specifically look for actors not from schools, but I digress.

As you say it's not absolute and discussing it with examples where you can't hear those examples is fairly difficult.

Edited April 29, 2014 by TimR

[Annoying Twit]

A number of example bands that I thought about came down to a tie between the bassist and the drummer. E.g. 801 (Manzanera, Eno, Wetton, Phillips if I remember correctly), and The Attractions (including Elvis Costello).

I'd also agree with the comments above (including TimR) about musicians who are very technically skilled but lack some sort of musicality. Phil Manzanera isn't technically fantastic, but often what he plays is just so tasteful and right for the song. (I'd still rate Wetton as a musician over him, just). Brian Eno is limited as a musician, but is innately very musical). Robert Fripp is a musician for whom I don't find his solo music that involving, but he seems to come alive when he collaborates with other musicians, such as Bowie, Eno, or Sylvian. Similar for Percy Jones. I really enjoy his playing with other artists, but when I listen to Brand X, I appreciate the technical prowess of the playing, but the music doesn't grab me. Pat Methany has less technically complex music, but it's far more musical. But, this is a difference in compositional ability, rather than technical prowess.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1398810639' post='2437960']
One would hope that the 'talented musican' would know the difference between a major and a minor, even if he couldn't tell you which was which and why.

Yes there are pit musicians that can read fly sh*t but sound sterile. That's theatre for you though, and why Simon Cowell gets rid of the pub singers, theatre singers and cruise ship performers that people pay so much money to go and see. There's a few productions that specifically look for actors not from schools, but I digress.

As you say it's not absolute and discussing it with examples where you can't hear those examples is fairly difficult.
[/quote]

They may know the difference as their ear is so cultured and that can take them so far that they don't/never need
any learned theory. Perfect pitch would do this....
But then we are talking about pretty special players who have that............of course, they need the manual dexterity
as well, but we must all know drummers who sound and feel awful but also some others that feel so good and
when they pick up another instrument they can make that sound pretty good within technical limitations.

I am a firm believer that people have their own boundaries and restrictions regarding being able to play... and some
have a very low threshold and will never be that good and some are just born stratospheric.
If you have ever played with a world class player in any sporting/musical situation, you will get a perspective of their talent
and how they just 'do' it...and what sets them waaaaay apart from the norm. Baring in mind what our norm is and what circle
of talent their comtempories are. And then, of course, you have got to be aware of what sets them apart.

[TimR]

Have you read 10,000 hours? It's a good book.

This interview with Sting is also an interesting read, just found it this morning.

http://www.singingbassist.com/interview-with-sting-the-singing-bassist/

I'm a firm believer that if you're reasonably good at something naturally, you are drawn to it and will practice it more as it's something you enjoy because you are naturally good at it. In that way you make exponential improvements.

[discreet]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1398851664' post='2438166']
I'm a firm believer that if you're reasonably good at something naturally, you are drawn to it and will practice it more as it's something you enjoy because you are naturally good at it. In that way you make exponential improvements.
[/quote]

Yes, I think so too. It would explain why I'm much better at playing the bass than I am at solving quadratic equations.

[waynepunkdude]

Matt Freeman

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398794767' post='2437701']
Look at the post directly above yours.
[/quote]

Aah yes.
Mustve dozed off...

Edited April 30, 2014 by BILL POSTERS

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1398851664' post='2438166']
Have you read 10,000 hours? It's a good book.

This interview with Sting is also an interesting read, just found it this morning.

[url="http://www.singingbassist.com/interview-with-sting-the-singing-bassist/"]http://www.singingba...inging-bassist/[/url]

I'm a firm believer that if you're reasonably good at something naturally, you are drawn to it and will practice it more as it's something you enjoy because you are naturally good at it. In that way you make exponential improvements.
[/quote]

Not read that, but I know of the percieved thinking of 10,000 hrs and by and large it makes sense, but then there might be guys for who that doesn't work very well and there are also guys who are something else, musically.
If we have all done 10,000 hrs why aren't we doing the top gigs..?? it is because someone else's 10,000 starts off at a higher point.
There is no way I'll believe 10,000 is an equal benchmark for all...

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1398855870' post='2438262']
If we have all done 10,000 hrs why aren't we doing the top gigs..?? it is because someone else's 10,000 starts off at a higher point.
There is no way I'll believe 10,000 is an equal benchmark for all...
[/quote]

It's because not that many people have actually done 10,000 hours.

[TimR]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1398855999' post='2438264']


It's because not that many people have actually done 10,000 hours.
[/quote]

Well it's slightly more complicated. It's about the quality of those 10,000 hours. If you spend 1500 of those hours practicing Mustang Sally from memory you're not going to get anywhere other than becoming really good at playing Mustang Sally.

[Panamonte]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1398842380' post='2438053'] A number of example bands that I thought about came down to a tie between the bassist and the drummer. E.g. 801 (Manzanera, Eno, Wetton, Phillips if I remember correctly), and The Attractions (including Elvis Costello). I'd also agree with the comments above (including TimR) about musicians who are very technically skilled but lack some sort of musicality. Phil Manzanera isn't technically fantastic, but often what he plays is just so tasteful and right for the song. (I'd still rate Wetton as a musician over him, just). Brian Eno is limited as a musician, but is innately very musical). Robert Fripp is a musician for whom I don't find his solo music that involving, but he seems to come alive when he collaborates with other musicians, such as Bowie, Eno, or Sylvian. Similar for Percy Jones. I really enjoy his playing with other artists, but when I listen to Brand X, I appreciate the technical prowess of the playing, but the music doesn't grab me. Pat Methany has less technically complex music, but it's far more musical. But, this is a difference in compositional ability, rather than technical prowess. [/quote]

Bill MacCormick was the bass player in 801...

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Panamonte' timestamp='1398859080' post='2438311']
Bill MacCormick was the bass player in 801...
[/quote]

That's my memory all over! He did a great job, and now that you've prodded my memory, I prefer MacCormick's playing (and singing) on albums such as K-Scope to John Wetton's work on the Wetton/Manzanera album.