Looking for my first bass

[DotsFar]

Hello,

I need you help. I am a beginner and I am looking for my first bass.

I am looking for a fretless, and I would like it to be in wood, preferably dark wood. Price limit around 800 pound.

I like the sound of Jaco Pastorius, the harmonies of several simultaneous tones, vibrato and overtones.

I also like this Rob Allen (price out of scope I know), and what Peter plays on it, it has it all (harmonies, vibrato etc):
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycN9x_5MqHQ"]https://www.youtube....h?v=ycN9x_5MqHQ[/url]

Questions:

1. I need fret markings as I am learning, but like it better without. Is it possible to make temporary fret markings ?

2. Can the sound of the Rob Allen and Jaco's sound be combined in one bass or do I need 2 ? Perhaps with Nylon strings on a Fender Jazz ?

3. If looking for a bass with Jaco sound, obviously the Fender Jazz Mex would match, but since I would like it to be natural wood, do you have any suggestions as to basses which has the sound ?

Hope to get lots of advice.

Best regards
DotsFar

Edited April 28, 2014 by DotsFar

[essexbasscat]

You could get a fretless for your first bass, but you'll find you'll have to learn about intonation, even with lines applied to the fingerboard.
One less task to begin with if you get a fretted bass, as the intonation issue won't be such an obstacle, which will leave you free to address all the other issues associated with learning bass from beginning.

Best wishes for your bass career and welcome to BC

[GrammeFriday]

What essexbasscat said.

Even Jaco practised on a fretted Jazz at home - he used the fretless for recording and concerts.

[Grangur]

If you're looking for a bass that will make you sound like Jaco then you're not alone. The difficulty in doing this is even if you played Jaco's own bass you will still sound like you playing Jaco's bass. The sound is in the fingers, it's not just the bass that does it.

Finding your sound is a journey. Have fun on the way, Good luck.

[DotsFar]

Thank you for the replies.
I would be dissapointed if not getting a fretless, I want to do vibrato - it doesn't seem like the same on a fretted although it can be done.
I know I set my standards way to high, I don't imagine being anywhere close to Jaco or Peter Kastner, but at least getting as close as possible with the equipment sound, should make it a pleasure to try playing some of the tunes.

[Grangur]

We don't know where you live, but can you find a fretless bass im a shop and try one?

Aftet all, every violinist and cellist plays fretless from day one.

[DotsFar]

I have actually had one, many many years ago, and though I never really got anywhere with it, I don't remember hitting the tones as a problem. Don't even remember the brand anymore, but it was nothing famous. I realized I didn't use it enough and sold it.
This time I have signed up for lessons, and I can play with my daughters guitar orchestra. At the moment I play chords on a 12 string yamaha as backing, but the teacher would love to have me playing bas.
So I will have both teacher, someone to practice with and even someone to play with weekly, so I reckon this time I have a chance of getting somewhere :-)

Edited April 28, 2014 by DotsFar

[JamesBass]

[quote name='DotsFar' timestamp='1398703710' post='2436766']
Hello,

I need you help. I am a beginner and I am looking for my first bass.

I am looking for a fretless, and I would like it to be in wood, preferably dark wood. Price limit around 800 pound.

I like the sound of Jaco Pastorius, the harmonies of several simultaneous tones, vibrato and overtones.

I also like this Rob Allen (price out of scope I know), and what Peter plays on it, it has it all (harmonies, vibrato etc):
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycN9x_5MqHQ"]https://www.youtube....h?v=ycN9x_5MqHQ[/url]

Questions:

1. I need fret markings as I am learning, but like it better without. Is it possible to make temporary fret markings ?

2. Can the sound of the Rob Allen and Jaco's sound be combined in one bass or do I need 2 ? Perhaps with Nylon strings on a Fender Jazz ?

3. If looking for a bass with Jaco sound, obviously the Fender Jazz Mex would match, but since I would like it to be natural wood, do you have any suggestions as to basses which has the sound ?

Hope to get lots of advice.

Best regards
DotsFar
[/quote]
With the price you quote, you could buy both fretted and fretless, especially second hand. The woods on the Mexican fenders are the same as those on the American series. The difference is they are built in Mexico and America.

By getting both, you can begin to get familiar with the fret board on the fretted and where things are etc. while developing your own style and technique. Finding yourself as a bass player is much more important than the instrument you play. I don't want to discourage the fretless dreams you have as that goes against everything I stand for as a musician and a bass teacher, but by starting on a fretted bass or at the very least, owning a fretted bass, you will improve more as a fretless player. Your instinct will develop and that's something those guys you look up to had, they had a great music instinct as to where on the neck they were.

Best of luck and welcome to BassChat! Please keep us up to date with how you are going and join in with the multitude of discussions that happen daily on here!

Edited April 28, 2014 by JamesBass

[davehux]

Get yourself a Squier Vintage Modified fretless Jazz. Plenty of second hand ones around from people that wanted to sound like Jaco, and didn't ;-)

If it works out, sell it on and get something else, or stick an unlined neck on it, or leave it exactly as it is - they punch well above their weight.

[DotsFar]

Warwick builds both passive and active guitars with wood look. Are any of those close in sound to the Fender Jazz ?
Your thoughts about starting on a fretted matches my own doubts, but I asked the teacher and he saw no reason not to start on a fretless. As he saw it, it was important to play what I thought would be fun, since it would probably make me practice more. So therefore I'm looking fretless, but with many advices against it I'm starting to doubt again. But how can I make good sounding vibrato on a fretted bas, and sliding tones wil go 'bump, bump bump' ?

[muttley]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1398719897' post='2437020']
every violinist and cellist plays fretless from day one.
[/quote]

^ this. The initial learning may be steeper, but if you want to play fretless, then play fretless!

[DotsFar]

Thanks Muttley
The opinions about getting a fretted got me doubting, but I hang on to the starement from my teacher, that it is ok to start fretless if it is marked, and I want to play with the vibrato and sliding into tones.

I didn't get many replies about the sound of Fender / Rob Allen. Can it be combined in one bass, the more acoustic sound (Rob Allen), and the Fender Jazz ?

[muttley]

[quote name='DotsFar' timestamp='1398774961' post='2437445']
Thanks Muttley
The opinions about getting a fretted got me doubting, but I hang on to the starement from my teacher, that it is ok to start fretless if it is marked, and I want to play with the vibrato and sliding into tones.

I didn't get many replies about the sound of Fender / Rob Allen. Can it be combined in one bass, the more acoustic sound (Rob Allen), and the Fender Jazz ?
[/quote]

Side dots will be OK, it doesn't have to be a lined bass. There are pros and cons to each so just go with what you like the look of etc.

I started playing violin at 10 and dabbled in (fretted) bass in my late teens. Fast forward 20+ years and I'm playing bass again, but mainly fretless as it feels more natural to me.

[Lw.]

You'll struggle to get the Fender Jazz tone out of a Warwick - I've found them to be completley opposite ends of the scale (which is why I'm after a Jazz for when the Warwick isn't appropriate). I don't know about the Rob Allen/acoustic sound.

I can't really think of many Jazz-y basses that come off-the-shelf in dark woods but someone on here was selling a [I think] Mahogany jazz they'd put together with parts from Warmoth which looked pretty nice. You could probably pick that up & put a fretless neck on it for less than your budget...

[JamesBass]

[quote name='DotsFar' timestamp='1398722429' post='2437048']
Warwick builds both passive and active guitars with wood look. Are any of those close in sound to the Fender Jazz ?
Your thoughts about starting on a fretted matches my own doubts, but I asked the teacher and he saw no reason not to start on a fretless. As he saw it, it was important to play what I thought would be fun, since it would probably make me practice more. So therefore I'm looking fretless, but with many advices against it I'm starting to doubt again. But how can I make good sounding vibrato on a fretted bas, and sliding tones wil go 'bump, bump bump' ?
[/quote]
Stick to the Fender Jazz it's more what you're after tone-wise. It's also an incredibly versatile bass, if in a year or two you change your mind to wanting to play something more generic rock based then you have the right tones.

As for fretless over fretted, again I'll re-iterate my points on your budget, with which you can afford both, it's something I'd recommend looking in to.

As for getting the Rob Allen tone, you'd certainly need some good flat wound strings, their tone will improve as time goes on and the more they are used. But please understand that tone comes from EVERYTHING that is in your rig. Your tone can change daily depending on something as simple as mood and health. Add to that the bass, cables, pedals, EQ, amp, cab and environment you're in!

[Dad3353]

Our youngest, Thomas, wanted to start playing bass,and specified from the start '5-string'. The only one I could afford for him at the time was a Cort active fiver (fretted...), bottom of the range, with J and MM type p/ups. He was delighted, and made progress. I then acquired a 6-string fretless (birthday present..!). Thomas tried it out quite quickly, and hasn't played his Cort since. We've been gigging several times since (pop/rock covers...), and no-one in the audience complains about the bass playing. He's taken to it as a duck to water.
My point..? As is mentioned above, concert players don't have this 'thing' about frets. There's nothing magic about them. Yes, they help on intonation at the very first, but then can become a crutch which one cannot do without. If one is willing to learn from day one that it's the ears that matter, fretless is not such a big deal. Having some acquired maturity helps, maybe.
As to the 'Jaco' sound; the simplest route would be a Jazz, I suppose. I'm not an expert in the matter (I'm principally a drummer..! ), but one can get a very convincing growling 'mwah' tone from most decent fretless instruments, anyway. A Rob Allen would be, to me, a dream bass, and I'm certain that they're capable of doing justice to his style of playing. Most of the style comes, not from the instrument, but from the player. Jaco would be able to sound like Jaco with almost any bass, I'd say. Look for (and try out...) as many basses as your fancy takes you, and learn to play it in your own inimitable way, following your inspirations and aspirations. Any decent bass will have the potential for that; you just have to 'bond' with her and persevere. Your budget permits a wide choice, so don't limit yourself with details of lesser importance.
Hope this helps.

[HowieBass]

That Rob Allen has a piezo bridge and I think piezos have a sound of their own, though you might get close with careful blending of the neck and bridge pickups on a Jazz. You might like the idea of an unlined neck but there's nothing wrong with having lines either; it's been said before but if lines were good enough for Jaco... well having them doesn't mean you're any less of a fretless bassist! As suggested you can probably pick up a Squier Vintage Modified fretless Jazz going secondhand fairly easily; get a decent amp to play through and you might also consider running your bass through a chorus pedal - fretless playing always sounds good with a tough of chorus

[DotsFar]

Thanks for all the advices.
I will be getting my first lesson Thursday and I am so lucky the teacher will let me try out a Musicman Fretless :-)
The conclusion from here is: Get a Fretless Fender
I am dissapointed I won't be getting a nice dark wooden bas, but it seems I will have to fall in love with the painted Fenders ;-)

[DarkHeart]

I was thinking of getting rid of my fretless Fender/Squier Jazz hybrid to fund something new if your interested (its not painted)

[URL=http://s80.photobucket.com/user/jeffhop/media/DSCF0577_zpsc1832e35.jpg.html][IMG]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/jeffhop/DSCF0577_zpsc1832e35.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edited May 2, 2014 by DarkHeart

[Grangur]

There's plenty of scope for getting a fretless without [s]sinking to[/s] getting a Fender

Take a look at the Fretless Porn thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/136517-fretless-porn/page__fromsearch__1"]here[/url]

There a lot of non-Fender possibles about. Some more radical than others.
But DarkHearts's bass may be worth a look

Edit - this is NOT DarkHeart's bass

Edited May 2, 2014 by Grangur

[DotsFar]

Hi,

Just want to tell you the outcome, thanks for the offers/ideas in the last 2 messages.

My teacher offered to help me look in a shop, and I have found and fallen in love with a Sandberg (CA tt 4 FL). It's not wood look, but...

It's body is black (my english is not really good enough here, but I will try), but without lacquer on top, like you do with typically brown stuff to outdoor furniture, so you still can see the wood under it. And it has been sanddusted before paint so there is contours in the wood. The plastic under the strings is black, instead of white like the black Fenders, which helps towards a calm relaxed look.

It has a rosewood fretboard, with markings only on the side, really beautiful with that long piece of beautiful wood without stripes.

It has 2 singlecoil pickups like a Fender Jazz in an active/passive setup.

It sounds beautiful, very nice sustain and beautiful vibrato.

I played it already too man hours yesterday, so my left hand needs a rest today - not really what I want<sigh>

Thanks for all your valuable inputs to my decision.

Edited May 3, 2014 by DotsFar

[Grangur]

Great result! Congratulations on finding what you really want. We look forward to seeing the pictures. Cos as you know; without pics it didn't really happen.

[DotsFar]

Ok, here comes the pictures. Apologize for the reflexes in the Chrome.

[attachment=161871:pic1.jpg]

[attachment=161872:pic2.jpg]

[attachment=161873:pic3.jpg]

[attachment=161874:pic4.jpg]

Edited May 3, 2014 by DotsFar

[Grangur]

Wow!! A lot of folk waste a lot of money buying and selling cheap basses when they first get started. I recon you've hit gold on that one.
Nice bass.

[DotsFar]

Hi Grangur,

Thank you. Yes, indeed, I too was thinking of getting a cheaper one, while looking for the keeper. It was very frustrating that I couldn't find the keeper straight away. But there it was, and yes I too think I hit gold :-)