Fender USA/MIM/MIJ/Warmoth/Squire etc. - Opinions on who to choose?

[Wolverinebass]

Not being a Fender expert myself and noting that price of them are going up somewhat, I wondered what would people get if they wanted the best Precision (I'm talking in terms of playability and fit and finish) choosing say from the following:

Fender USA
Fender MIM
Warmoth
Squire
WD
Allparts
Mighty Mite

I'm very intrigued being that say a Duff McKagan is now £900 for a MIM and the QC has been noted to be lacking (allegedly) and beforehand they were MIJ. I wondered how much discernible difference there actually is? Other than Fender using cheaper labour and putting the price up slightly.

Is a Squire really a cheap slab of basswood that should be burned or are they very much value for money and a lot closer to a Fender USA than the price difference would have you believe? Are Fender USA models ridiculously overpriced? Do MIM have dodgy QC?

I ask this not to be inflammatory in any way, but just for curiosity as I may grab a precision in the near future.

[gsgbass]

I play Fender Am. Std.'s, and think they're fine. Overpriced, not really. A case comes with them, good pups, good playable necks, and fretboards that are finished right..

Edited April 29, 2014 by gsgbass

[skej21]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1398799952' post='2437769']
Not being a Fender expert myself and noting that price of them are going up somewhat, I wondered what would people get if they wanted the best Precision (I'm talking in terms of playability and fit and finish) choosing say from the following:

Fender USA
Fender MIM
Warmoth
Squire
WD
Allparts
Mighty Mite

I'm very intrigued being that say a Duff McKagan is now £900 for a MIM and the QC has been noted to be lacking (allegedly) and beforehand they were MIJ. I wondered how much discernible difference there actually is? Other than Fender using cheaper labour and putting the price up slightly.

Is a Squire really a cheap slab of basswood that should be burned or are they very much value for money and a lot closer to a Fender USA than the price difference would have you believe? Are Fender USA models ridiculously overpriced? Do MIM have dodgy QC?

I ask this not to be inflammatory in any way, but just for curiosity as I may grab a precision in the near future.
[/quote]

I went through this at the end of last year. I decided that the MIM Nate Mendel signature was the best option. Nitrocellulose finish, Badass II bridge, slim profile neck (closer to jazz profile) and Seymour Duncan quarter pounder 3. Stunning bass for just over £700.

[RhysP]

The only Fenders I've ever played that have been consistently good have been MIJ/CIJ ones.
My Precision is an MIJ model & while I'm not fan of Fenders I couldn't be happier with it.

[theyellowcar]

The top end of the Mexican basses are really great instruments.

The Nate Mendal sig and the new Mike Dirnt sig were both excellent when I tried them recently. Well built, quality components and generally reasonable price points (if the Dirnt was just £150 cheaper...!)

I myself own two Mexican Precisions which are both great basses, especially for the prices I paid in the 2nd hand market.

To that point if you do settle on a higher end bass, make sure to scout the used market first - there are some bargains out there, and generally the price you pay is the price you'll get if you decide to sell on again. Unlike Squier/home-build basses which tend to lose 40-50% of the purchase price the second you leave the shop.

[HowieBass]

I couldn't be happier with my Squier Vintage Modified Precision (bought from theyellowcar!). The fit and finish is excellent and the Duncan Designed pickup delivers as much output as my active basses. I've set up the bass myself; I have quite a low action with no unwanted fret buzz and I can honestly say the neck is great.

[Lw.]

I've been looking at Fenders too (still waiting for a suitable one to pop up in the classifieds) so understand your pain, although I've been looking at and playing LOADS of Jazzes I guess the same principals apply:

The American standards are lovely, incredibly well put together & sound very good. Whilst they do cost a fair bit, I think it is justifiable if you really want new. The other US models are also nice but as you go through the various next-step models the price rockets & I'm not sure if they're really worth it.

MIMs are quite good too - I think if I hadn't played the new American Standard I'd have been perfectly happy with the MIM standard, whilst they may lack a tiny bit of polish, it's not really a big thing. I also played a few of the other MIM models, some were very good but I was really disappointed with one (annoyingly it was the one I really wanted to like), but one bad one out of maybe 5 probably isn't too bad - just play before you buy.

Played a couple of new Squires and I have to say they've improved massively from their 90's/00's counterparts, but you can tell the difference (and not just the extra grand in your pocket). They're nice budget basses - I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to someone that's looking to learn the bass but I wouldn't say they're a realistic option if you're looking at the nicer basses.

Not played any of the licensed parts basses (warmoth etc..), but I should probably admit to having a dream at the moment of having a new spec American Standard body (with the custom shop pups) and putting a flash Warmoth neck on it...

Those are my opinions, others will obviously disagree with some of them.

[theyellowcar]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1398805858' post='2437886']
I couldn't be happier with my Squier Vintage Modified Precision (bought from theyellowcar!). The fit and finish is excellent and the Duncan Designed pickup delivers as much output as my active basses. I've set up the bass myself; I have quite a low action with no unwanted fret buzz and I can honestly say the neck is great.
[/quote]

I'm glad it's still behaving!

[Lozz196]

Although I always recommend the US Standard as THE one to choose, that`s mainly down to the fact that is suits ME best. Play a whole bunch, and get the one you like best. The 2008 US Series is my fave of the modern batch, I`ve had 4 of them now and they`ve all been spot on. Why if I like them so much have I let 3 go and am selling the other, well I got my fave ever 78 Precision back a few weeks ago, and something has to pay for her.

MIMs - had a whole bunch, never had a bad one, but the 2012 onwards are significantly better imo. The Classic MIM range is great, the Signature Series also really good (had a Duff McKagan and a Mike Dirnt).

Squier, Classic Vibe are great, my current backup, and this was also my main gigging bass for a bit is a Made in Korea Precision. Really great basses, and this is where I say play a bunch of different ones. I had an MIK Precision before, sold it then realised my mistake, so bought another. The fact it`s reported of being made of plywood doesn`t bother me, it playes great and my hands and ears really like it. The label at the end doesn`t count of those two factors are covered, again imo.

[HowieBass]

[quote name='theyellowcar' timestamp='1398809124' post='2437938']
I'm glad it's still behaving!
[/quote]

I've recently gone all out reducing the relief on my four fretted basses (just to see what was possible) and both Squiers have taken to the adjustment exceedingly well (in fact the others have too happily) and there's no hint at all of any uneveness in the level of the fingerboard/frets and the action's wonderful

[GrammeFriday]

I'd take an MTD CRB 5, thanks! Had a go on the trans black and rosewood one at Bass Direct the other week - best sounding and nicest playing P-bass I've tried in many, many years. Doesn't look much like a P-bass, admittedly, but for me tone and feel are much more important than how Fendery it looks, and fit and finish are superb for the money.

[karlfer]

You have a load of top quality basses.
Nobody on here has tried every Fender made (although one or two of us are trying very hard ).
I would advocate patience and going to try out every one that comes up within distance, until you find the one.
I have had quite a few Mex. The really excellent ones I have had are the passive FSR I currently have (Jazz neck with black blocks, Precision body, P/J pups Bad a** 11), the active FSR I did have, the Antigua FSR, Nate Mendel and the Geddy jazz.
In terms of American Precisions, I have had 4 of the 03/08 series, all with S1 switching. I never used the S1 but all 4 of those basses were excellent.

As you well know, most basses in shops are not set up and trying any of them can put you off for life.
Get one 2nd hand that has been set up for you. Have the patience to enjoy trying them out.
Good luck.

Edited April 30, 2014 by karlfer

[theyellowcar]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1398810456' post='2437958']


I've recently gone all out reducing the relief on my four fretted basses (just to see what was possible) and both Squiers have taken to the adjustment exceedingly well (in fact the others have too happily) and there's no hint at all of any uneveness in the level of the fingerboard/frets and the action's wonderful
[/quote]

Excellent! I'd already taken a lot of the relief out vs the factory set-up so I'm impressed that it went even further!

[ZXRRDave]

I tried about 15-20 basses whilst deciding on my new one and if I'm honest I have to say that the difference in build quality between an American standard and an mim/mij is almost imperceptible. The mim Duff signature was a wonderfully put together piece of kit and easily on a par with any other bass on the shelf in pmt.

Saying that, everyone who has seen and played my mij aerodyne has been literally blown away by it. Basically, if you spend over a certain price point on any Fender it doesn't really matter where they were made build quality wise and it just comes down to equipment.

[sykilz]

Just got a new MIM jazz, tried a few in PMT Southend, and this, for me, was perfect, fit finish and feel is nigh on perfect, sounds good too. Light weight too if thats a concern. Playing pubs I couldn't really justify paying over twice as much for a MIA.

[bigjohn]

You've just got to remember that guitars are made of wood and wood is not a consistent material. Fenders are also hand finished, so again not consistent.

There's not a whole heap of difference between MIM and MIA other than the hardware and how much time is spent finishing each bass.They use the same woods. That said, there are FSR (factory special runs) MIMs that may have had more attention paid to their build than US Standards.

MIJ is completely different kettle of fish. Different woods, different factories. Though their non-export models tend to be more like the FSRs in that they're made in shorter runs, better spec and build.

Squier again is completely different, with cheaper woods and hardware and different production techniques.

So... due to the inconsistencies present, even though these things are mass produced and that what's "better" or "worse" about each is entirely subjective, it's perfectly possible that a particular Squier guitar could be considered by the majority (if doing their best to be objective) to be "better" than a particular MIA. It's just that the odds are stacked against that being likely for each individual guitar.

I have an MIM, a MIJ and an MIA bass. They're all as good as each other in their different ways. Though my MIJ is a real beauty and my MIM is the best MIM I've come across.

So all depends what you think is value. And if you, for the sake of saving a few hundred quid (esp considering if you by 2nd hand, you're not actually losing "money") want to go though the likely process of buying a few MIMs in the hope of finding a really good one you like. Likewise, you might buy an MIA and find you don't... but in general, you're more likely to enjoy (if you prefer well built, finished and nice sounding basses) luck finding a good bass that's either MIA or MIJ. That, apart from their cost as new, is mostly why they hold their 2nd hand prices.

Like...

The Warmoth stuff is really good quality and consistent. The Mighty Mite stuff is good, and consistent, but not properly hand finished like Warmoth parts. They're not in the same league (or market) in that regard. All Parts I've not used, neither have I WD.

Edited April 30, 2014 by bigjohn

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1398834974' post='2438002']
You have a load of top quality basses.
[/quote]

Thanks mate. It's not like you don't have nice basses either!!


[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1398875914' post='2438571']
You've just got to remember that guitars are made of wood and wood is not a consistent material. Fenders are also hand finished, so again not consistent.

There's not a whole heap of difference between MIM and MIA other than the hardware and how much time is spent finishing each bass.They use the same woods. That said, there are FSR (factory special runs) MIMs that may have had more attention paid to their build than US Standards.

MIJ is completely different kettle of fish. Different woods, different factories. Though their non-export models tend to be more like the FSRs in that they're made in shorter runs, better spec and build.

Squier again is completely different, with cheaper woods and hardware and different production techniques.

So... due to the inconsistencies present, even though these things are mass produced and that what's "better" or "worse" about each is entirely subjective, it's perfectly possible that a particular Squier guitar could be considered by the majority (if doing their best to be objective) to be "better" than a particular MIA. It's just that the odds are stacked against that being likely for each individual guitar.

I have an MIM, a MIJ and an MIA bass. They're all as good as each other in their different ways. Though my MIJ is a real beauty and my MIM is the best MIM I've come across.

So all depends what you think is value. And if you, for the sake of saving a few hundred quid (esp considering if you by 2nd hand, you're not actually losing "money") want to go though the likely process of buying a few MIMs in the hope of finding a really good one you like. Likewise, you might buy an MIA and find you don't... but in general, you're more likely to enjoy (if you prefer well built, finished and nice sounding basses) luck finding a good bass that's either MIA or MIJ. That, apart from their cost as new, is mostly why they hold their 2nd hand prices.

Like...

The Warmoth stuff is really good quality and consistent. The Mighty Mite stuff is good, and consistent, but not properly hand finished like Warmoth parts. They're not in the same league (or market) in that regard. All Parts I've not used, neither have I WD.
[/quote]

I note that a few of you say that "above x price point it doesn't make any difference." What might that be? £500? £700? £900? I'm curious.

I was looking at the Classic 70s RI in Olympic white which I note is cheekily £60 more expensive than the same model in sunburst. Really?!! It's a colour!! A standard colour!! I also note that on Fender's website they're the same price, why the difference over here? Anyone got one? Any good?

For years I thought most Fenders were awful as the ones I tried were just that. I couldn't find anything I liked though to be fair I was after a much more cutting sound. The worst was jazz basses and the horrid neck profile. However, at last year's bass bash I tried Fat Rich's 72 Jazz. Get in!! Brilliant. Then by happenstance a friend of mine asked to borrow my Alembic for an important gig. I said yes as friends do on the condition that I could borrow his precision from 1980. I was great so I kind of felt like the clock had been re-set so to speak in my views which I thought were concrete have become.... less so.

Hence why I'd like a really nice precision, preferably with a maple fretboard. Why are blocks not a proper option except on one model? If the point of Fender basses is that everything is replaceable, why not offer everything as one big custom shop?

Thank you all for the advice.

[rubis]

If its going to be a keeper, then create your perfect bass from Warmoth parts
Excellent quality

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1398888451' post='2438763']
I was looking at the Classic 70s RI in Olympic white which I note is cheekily £60 more expensive than the same model in sunburst. Really?!! It's a colour!! A standard colour!! I also note that on Fender's website they're the same price, why the difference over here? Anyone got one? Any good?

For years I thought most Fenders were awful as the ones I tried were just that. I couldn't find anything I liked though to be fair I was after a much more cutting sound. The worst was jazz basses and the horrid neck profile. However, at last year's bass bash I tried Fat Rich's 72 Jazz. Get in!! Brilliant. Then by happenstance a friend of mine asked to borrow my Alembic for an important gig. I said yes as friends do on the condition that I could borrow his precision from 1980. I was great so I kind of felt like the clock had been re-set so to speak in my views which I thought were concrete have become.... less so.


Thank you all for the advice.
[/quote]

The 70s RI Precision is a great bass, but the neck profile is nothing like either of the actual 70s Precisions I`ve had - much shallower.

Going from your post above, your hands seem to prefer a deep profile on the neck, which screams actual 70s basses to me - and as you`ve stated re both Richs Jazz and your mates Precision. Looks like an expensive bass is on your way , make sure you try before you buy if possible, but from what I`ve read above 70s all the way for you.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1398975532' post='2439699']
The 70s RI Precision is a great bass, but the neck profile is nothing like either of the actual 70s Precisions I`ve had - much shallower.

Going from your post above, your hands seem to prefer a deep profile on the neck, which screams actual 70s basses to me - and as you`ve stated re both Richs Jazz and your mates Precision. Looks like an expensive bass is on your way , make sure you try before you buy if possible, but from what I`ve read above 70s all the way for you.
[/quote]

Thanks Lozz. I took an hour to pop along to Wunjo's today. Lovely blokes there and just said "I'm looking to try a few precisions, what you got?" So I started at the bottom (in terms of price bracket) and worked up. So here's what I found. Started with the Squier CV in fiesta Red. For £300ish that is a really good bass. They then say that the Mexican basses are a good bit better and the Americans are even better. I'm already salivating.

So, I move on to the Fender Standard. Whoooaaaaa!!! Get in!! For £500 that bass kicks some and then a bit more besides. Fantastic. Now, what's next?!!! If this is going to be EVEN BETTER what then?!!!!

50's Roadworn. Okay, that's £900 and I'd say it's not any better. In fact, I'd say soundwise, it sounded more hollow in the mids but still yet more comfortable to play despite having a wider neck. Nevertheless, we move on.

American standard. Very, very well put together, but it sounded duller than all the rest. It was strung through body, but it had much more in the low mid area and less top than all the others. Curious that.

By this point the guys at Wunjo's probably want to kill me, but nevertheless, they were amazingly polite and lovely towards me. Frankly, I'm buying from them in the future as they deserve my custom.

So, as to negative points. All the basses were really good in their own way. The Squier was stupidly cheap for what you got, but maybe the name puts people off. It shouldn't. Possibly the tinted neck might, but not in my case.

The Precision Standard was in Cherry Apple Red. What a horrible colour. Truly apocalyptically bad. It also had a satin neck which I hate. But it by far was the best bass of the 4 for me from a soundwise perspective. It was just devastating and if you think the Squier punches above it's weight then this one even more so I feel.

The Roadworn was probably the most comfortable though the string spacing at the nut felt odd to me in a way I can't define as the nut width is the same as my Alembic. Nevertheless, a very comfortable and good bass. Are roadworn basses stupid as a concept? Probably, but just my opinion. I guess there must be a market for people that want basses that look like they've come back from a tour of duty in Chechnya, but I'm not one of them really.

Lastly the American standard. Curiously though this and the Roadworn both had maple fretboards but were less bright than the other 2 which were rosewood. The American Standard especially so. Odd that. It was quite obvious that it'd been more taken care of in terms of fit and finish, but sadly this didn't come over in the sound and if you played them without looking at the colour, you'd maybe come away thinking that the American and Mexican bass had had the price tags switched around. Curious.

I played all 4 of them with the same flat amp setting and tone knob full on. I regarded it as a fair test, but of course my opinion is subjective. I suppose what I have learned from this is that I'm going to sound like me regardless, but I think a nice P bass is on the cards at some point in the near future. That last sentence is words I never thought I'd come out with.

Maybe as you said in a different thread Lozz, I've just finally "got it."

[xgsjx]

I've a funny feeling that no 2 Fenders have the same QC regardless of where they're made.
I found the Squier Jazz superior to the MIM, but the MIA was far better (it was a very nice instrument to play). The Jaco was slightly better, but not warranting the extra £500.

[Lozz196]

Interesting post re the day at Wunjos, have read many similar comments about how good they are there.

Re the sound of the basses, well I also found that the 2012 US Standards, with the Custom Shop pickup seemed to be quite muddy and lack any definition/crispness in the top-end. That said, I didn`t try it out in a band setting - could have been different at that point. Also re the Roadworns, I`ve never really like the fake-relicing but at some point I`m going to have to get one of these as I found both that I`ve tried really great to play, agree, really comfortable.

[ZXRRDave]

One thing just popped into my mind, since you like the chunkier neck profile. When I was researching my new bass I was working on the opposite criteria (I like the slimmer jazz neck equipped instruments) so ruled out from my list one that may be of interest to you, although it could be difficult to find one to try out.

Something that stood out in my research was how well regarded and reviewed the MIM signature series models are - I played a duff mckagan sig, as well as considering a nate mendel too - and the reason I discounted the Roger Waters one was because it has a P neck with an extra depth 70's profile to it. On top of that, it's by far the most reasonable sig series price wise at a shade under £700. Still a lot of money, but 100 less than the nate mendel and 300 less than the duff. Damn good looking instrument too. Could be worth a little looking into.

Edited May 3, 2014 by ZXRRDave

[Jono Bolton]

FWIW, my MIM PBass is a great instrument. It's light, resonant (even with that thick finish), the neck is great, tuners are rock solid, the only thing I dislike about it is the ugly black plastic sleeve around the truss rod access hole at the headstock end, it looks cheap IMO. I'd prefer heel-end adjustment.

I've stuck a threaded saddle bridge on it (personal preference), installed a new wiring harness, tort scratchplate and a pretty knackered Wizard Thumper that sounds amazing, so these mods all help to make it as good as it is, but that said, the two main components (body & neck) are original and very, very good.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Jono Bolton