Annoying Twit Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1399034649' post='2440260'] Interesting thread in that if the shoe was on the other foot, i.e. a guitarist "suggesting" to a bassist what or how he should play (regardless of whether the "suggestion" was warrented or not) lots of people would be up in arms with things like..."tell him where to stuff his suggestion.." and phrases to that effect. [/quote] Surely the situations are very different depending on what the suggestion is. If the suggestion is a constructive suggestion which if followed would make the suggestee a better player with a greater ability to express themselves artistically, then the suggestee would be sensible and mature to accept it in good grace and thank the suggester. if the suggestion is "just play root notes" or "play the [substandard] bass line exactly as I wrote it", then that's an entirely different matter. Edited May 2, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='thefruitfarmer' timestamp='1399028128' post='2440107'] I have been working with our new guitarist to get the indie rock and the more skiffle/rockabilly/country stuff up to speed. I think the problem ... is the way he is playing it..... [/quote] To be fair, indie and (skiffle/rockabilly/country) are four different genres, each demanding a fairly distinctive approach to rhythm guitar. Moreover, despite belief to the contrary, there is a big difference between country and rockabilly rhythm licks. To get convincing at these latter involves a [i]lot[/i] of work. In respect of the skiffle/rockabilly/country I would in the first instance recommend your guitarist absorb the work of Mr James Burton; his style can reasonably accommodate all three genres. I would not know about 'Indie'. May I also suggest a perusal of the stylings of rhythm titan Mr Steve Cropper. Although he is of the Soul persuasion, much can be learnt from Cropper's economical use of intervals, double-stops and simple inversions, mostly using the top three or four strings in such a way as to leave space for the low end instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 This ^ is true. Fine recommendations, which will take weeks, or more probably months, to assimilate. The results would be worth the time spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 And Nile Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Indeed, I would back Skank's comments - country chickin pickin is possibly one of the most difficult techniques to pull off well. While there's a certain cross over on all 4 genres, they do require different approaches to rhythm and feel, and apart from indie (what ever that is) are not at all instinctive to many modern guitar players. Feel is the most important thing for a guitarist playing rhythm parts, and matters far more than the other niceties of using the 'correct' chord inversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399033497' post='2440231'] It's hilarious - particularly with the Gloucestershire accents. [b]NSFW - EXTREME PROFANITY - DO NOT LISTEN IF YOU'RE LIKELY TO BE OFFENDED!![/b] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXfK9Osmvs[/media] [/quote] Is Andover in Gloucestershire....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1399053201' post='2440553'] Is Andover in Gloucestershire....? [/quote] Duh, it's in Hampshire - but the accents are practically identical. I should know, I'm from Gloucestershire meself, ya bloody great tosser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefruitfarmer Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1399050335' post='2440524'] Feel is the most important thing for a guitarist playing rhythm parts, and matters far more than the other niceties of using the 'correct' chord inversions. [/quote] That's where myself and singer and drummer are at with this..... We all feel that he is not playing some of the songs rhythm parts with the right feel to them... We may have to gang up on him ;-) It does appear sometimes that he can actually play a rhythm part with a good groove, but he can't keep that going for more than a few bars....we may be able to just tell him when he is doing it so he knows what it is.... ..could just as easily end up like the Troggs though ! All very ethereal and a minefield to deal with. It is a local band playing pubs a couple of times a month. Been playing with the drummer a couple of years, he is good and it has improved my sense of pulse and timing, and I do remember when I first started playing with him that I had to move up a level... We shall see, it could go several ways.... I reckon he has it in him so will be persevering for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You've got the wrong guitarist. Don't be blaming Yngwie for not being able to play like Martin Carthy, and don't be blaming yourself for not being able to play like Scott Thunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1399073275' post='2440875'] You've got the wrong guitarist. Don't be blaming Yngwie for not being able to play like Martin Carthy, and don't be blaming yourself for not being able to play like Scott Thunes. [/quote] Far be it from me to actually agree with Neil, but I do. He might be able to learn, but it's probably not his taste or natural inclination in music. Just like I could play chugga-chugga riffs for a few bars before becoming bored/embarrassed/wanting to stop, he probably feels somewhat similar but is finding it hard to put his foot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefruitfarmer Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Yep, it might be pointing towards 2nd or replacement guitarist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 When Cedric (rhythm guitar...) left the band (ska/punk/rock...) for uni, we auditioned several candidates, with little success. Vincent suggested a buddy of his, Yohann, who finally shyly turned up; a decent player but with little rhythm experience. We spent a couple of sessions getting that 'skank' up-stroke style in place with him. He went on to become a king-pin of the group. Moral of the tale: it's all about the motivation of the fellow. If he wants to work on new styles (and assuming he's got at least a spot of talent...), it's only a question of putting in a couple of workshop sessions, and a fair amount of individual practice. Does he want to do that..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399119515' post='2441217'] Moral of the tale: it's all about the motivation of the fellow. [/quote] Nail > Head. I've been in so many bands that failed partly due to the fact that one or more members just weren't that bothered and were only in a band because they liked the idea of being in a band and weren't prepared to put the necessary amount of work in. After reading many threads here on this subject over the years, I believe it's quite a common problem to say the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Should the current hapless, compliant guitarist be replaced by one competent to deliver convincing skiffle, country and rockabilly there is a strong likelihood that he or she will demand very simple, repetitive bass lines for those songs. They will do so from a position of expertise and confidence. It is also probable that they will disport long grey hair, a waistcoat and an early 60's Gretsch. Just saying [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited May 3, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I agree, I've been in bands with guitarists that will only play what they can play and won't play anything that requires them to learn a new technique, like skanking on an upstroke or learning what they deem to be "jazz chords". I also agree that a lot of these folk lack stamina and consequently try to come up with alternative guitar parts to the songs. You can easily spot these people as they refer to "rhythm guitarists" and "lead guitarists", when someone asks me whether I play lead or rhythm guitar, I usually answer by telling them that I play whatever the song needs at that time. They're also the people who when they see/hear me playing bass usually tell me that I'd be good enough to be a guitarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 [quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399123810' post='2441284']...They're also the people who when they see/hear me playing bass usually tell me that I'd be good enough to be a guitarist.[/quote] Now there, you're clearly exagerating..! No-one is [i]that [/i]good..! ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1399123722' post='2441281'] It is also probable that they will disport long grey hair, a waistcoat and an early 60's Gretsch. [/quote] You putting yourself forward for the job then, Skank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399123810' post='2441284'] ...when someone asks me whether I play lead or rhythm guitar, I usually answer by telling them that I play whatever the song needs at that time... [/quote] When someone asks me whether I play lead or rhythm guitar, I just say YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1399205428' post='2442024'] When someone asks me whether I play lead or rhythm guitar, I just say YES. [/quote] When anyone asks me anything at all I pretend to be deaf. Edited May 4, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I'm a drummer. I get asked sod all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399205785' post='2442026'] I'm a drummer. I get asked sod all. [/quote] Really? What about, 'Are you going to bloody play in time or not??' [size=4] Thhp! [/size][size=4]*Runs away*[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399206404' post='2442037'] Really? What about, 'Are you going to bloody play in time or not??' [size=4] Thhp! [/size][size=4]*Runs away*[/size] [/quote] ... (...[i]but then again, what else would one expect from a fool with a bass..?[/i] ... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399206837' post='2442043'] (...[i]but then again, what else would one expect from a fool with a bass..?[/i] ... ) [/quote] Touché. Edited May 4, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399205785' post='2442026'] I'm a drummer. I get asked sod all. [/quote] What about "Any chance of a lift to the gig?" Drummers get asked that one a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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