kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Hiya, people,heres my problem sorry I'm sure this as been asked a zillion times ,I'm running two ashdown cabs with a Warwick profet 3.2 head 300watt, 8ohms, just not cutting through the mix these days, I'm up against two valve amp using guitarists, my question being is time for bigger head I can't really push the head anymore for fear of killing it,the cabs seem okay with my eb180 head but alas she's semi retired now so is living a quiet life now, oh the dreaded clipping at high volumes on the warwick. The warwick for sale on here can't give away lol,any ideas please.confused and p%**ed off. Kev Edited May 4, 2014 by kevvo66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 those warwick heads are notorious for having no hedroom, they still seem to do ok on ebay though because of the warwick name, if cash is an issue see if you can source an old peavey, super cheap, loads of head room and built like a tank but heavy (i think there is on here for sale somewhere i used to work in a shop that had he full range of warwick heads and even the supposedly 1000w one was poor in percieved output volume compared to most other brands in my opinion which cabs are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Hi, I'm using ashdowns mag 115 ,s,250 watts and 200 watt extension cab at 8ohms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1399191795' post='2441804'] Hiya, people,heres my problem sorry I'm sure this as been asked a zillion times ,I'm running two ashdown cabs with a Warwick profet 3.2 head 300watt, 8ohms, just not cutting through the mix these days, I'm up against two valve amp using guitarists, my question being is time for bigger head I can't really push the head anymore for fear of killing it,the cabs seem okay with my eb180 head but alas she's semi retired now so is living a quiet life now, oh the dreaded clipping at high volumes on the warwick. The warwick for sale on here can't give away lol,any ideas please.confused and p%**ed off. Kev [/quote] it's usually the guitarers fault turning their bass and lows up to high because they like how it sounds at home w***nking away on it and they cant turn the volume down or they wont get 'their sound' blah blah blah blah what two cabs are you using? i use a 1x15 with a 4x10 hooked up to a 250 watt head and it sounds massive but agree it would still struggle if the guitarer cranked his 50w valve job all the way up - we had gig last week at large outdoor event and were onstage doing sound levels and the sound guy says to guitar in a matter of fact tone ...'is that the volume you usually play at? ... because i can hear it above the PA' - i LOL'd onstage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) if it was me i would get the warwick on ebay and scour the local 2nd hand shops for a peavey mark vi or similar with a little more budget there are loads of great heads goin for bargain prices if you are willing to search for em what kind of music do you play, it can be hard work competing against 2 all valve guitar stacks Edited May 4, 2014 by winterfire666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Anytime I have to play with guitarists, I have to ask them to roll off the bass. If you're still not cutting through, increase your mids a touch & roll off your lows & put your rig close to a wall (a corner is better still). This should give a significant increase in how loud you are, though it might not have all the lows that you may want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Alternatively you could experiment by turning the bass down on the guitarists amps. I notice when guitarists I play with have very bass heavy sounds, my bass sounds indistinct or just disappears from the mix. But when they go to the back pickup or play a solo, all of a sudden my bass sounds loud and proud. The guitarist in one of the bands I play in has two guitars, one is a bass heavy Gretsch the other a trebly telecaster. I sound much louder in the mix when he plays the tele as apposed to the Gretsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1399191795' post='2441804'] I'm up against two valve amp using guitarists. [/quote] Ooh! [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1399193882' post='2441835'] Anytime I have to play with guitarists, I have to ask them to roll off the bass. If you're still not cutting through, increase your mids & roll off your lows. [/quote] Ahh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) As an example here is metallica playing their version of Whiskey in The Jar. You can see a bass player in the video but he might as well not be there. If he told the guitarists to 'turn the effin bass down!'. You might be able to hear him. By the way Phil Lynott is, at this moment, turning in his grave! [media]http://youtu.be/boanuwUMNNQ[/media] Edited May 4, 2014 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 We play indie power pop,/rock with lot of 60s influences,even my drummers not happy with them, f#%*ing valve amp, think I'll nick their valves!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) It's the old story - in my humble opinion guitarists need no more than 30 valve watts at the very most. That will get you heard on the biggest stages. It's different for bass, of course. Edited May 4, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 We are in the studio next weekend that should sort them out I hope!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 in my old band the guitarists had 2x 4x12 each and 100w valve amps, it was just silly now the guitarists in new band get told, turn down or f**k off :^) although im probably the one most guilty of bieng too loud nowadays, but i can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399194853' post='2441854'] It's the old story - in my humble opinion guitarists need no more than 30 valve watts at the very most. That will get you heard on the biggest stages. It's different for bass, of course. [/quote] My guitarist has a VOX AC30 and a Blues Junior 15w valve amp. He now, almost always, uses the 15 watter. I have him well trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 My poor jazz bass ain't got a cat in hells chance.oh bugger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Try what everyone have suggest first by dialling the mid first and roll off some guitar bass. If you still insist having a new amp or rig, I would suggest Trace Elliot. Trace Elliot head and a trace 4x10 should be able to blow the guitarist ear off ........ They are insanely loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) theres a peavey bam 2x10 combo for sale £350 here on basschat, i once tried one of those on top of a 4x10 extention cab and it was a massive sound somehin like that would have a chance of putting them into place :^) thats a seriously good amp if you dont mind a combo Edited May 4, 2014 by winterfire666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Sound good too me I'll check them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1399195164' post='2441863'] My guitarist has a VOX AC30 and a Blues Junior 15w valve amp. He now, almost always, uses the 15 watter. [/quote] VOX AC30s are really bloody loud! Our guitarist has a Marshall DSL40C and even on the 20-watt setting it's deafening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I don't think there is going to be much mileage in your amps and cabs. Your gtrs may well be too loud, or poorly set up but that is another fight altogether so pick your ground as you will probably be taking them both on. But, back to your gear... you have to run it EQ wise in a way that it 'may' cut through but that empties all your bass which is what the gtrs say they want. The amp sounds like it doesn't have the volumes, but your cabs aren't going to take much more and with a louder amp, you'll be able to turn up more but the cabs will then have problems. Sell it all and start again. If you are going into battle with two gtrs...and I agree you shouldn't have to or want to, then you need a 500w rig with sound to spare. By this time, you should all realise that you can't sound all that good at that volume and your ears suffer/hurt.. .... At least the drummer should be on your side as he can't be building sheds all night and although they think he can be heard...it is only the high end that gets across. So, either natural evolution or BAND CHAT.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) You could sell all your gear, spend a heap load on new stuff and still have the same problem. If the drummer is getting frustrated the only solution is for the guitarists to turn down and learn how to use their eq in a band setting. Edited May 4, 2014 by Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Orange Terror Bass,never had a problem since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1399199750' post='2441937'] You could sell all your gear, spend a heap lad on new stuff and still have the same problem. If the drummer is getting frustrated the only solution is for the guitarists to turn down and learn how to use their eq in a band setting. [/quote] This is a sensible post - you don't really want to start an arms race. The problem is being caused by the guitarists, and the logical solution lies with them. Easier said than done, I'll admit. Have you and the drummer actually spoken to them about it, or are you both suffering in silence? 'Silence' - haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevvo66 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) We are Both suffering in silence at the moment ,not that we hear each other lol Edited May 4, 2014 by kevvo66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 If (and it's a big one...) they are guitarists, they'll understand the issue and cooperate to get a coherent 'band' sound. If, on the other hand, they're noise gods, then there's no point in fighting back. Change the line-up; either they go or you do. Maybe hire a 'Lemmy' stack for a practice, and show 'em what it's like..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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