The Greatest Bass Designer Of All Time, Ever. (Part two)

[LukeFRC]

So I've been thinking...

The Greatest Bass Designer of All time....

Leo Fender, possibly unanimously - even if you don't like them the Precision, Jazz, Stingray, L1000, L2000 et al have pretty much defined the electric bass.... so that's part one done.


So who's the second on the list?


My suggestion... Ned Steinburger, The old cricket bat, headless composite... the Spector NS (as copied in Warwick's Streamer), his EUB and the lovely radius.



discuss!

[LukeFRC]

(I realise it wasn't called the cricket bat, but I don't know what it was called!)

[foal30]

yup

Leo
then Ned
then Mr Tobias

[BigRedX]

I would suggest:

N. HAYASHI (H. Noble) - Aria Pro II, Atlansia
Heiko Hoepfinger - BassLab
Dave Bunker - Bunker Guitars
Carl Thompson
Sheldon Dingwall
Martin Sims - Enfield
Harry Fleishman (his headless basses pre-dated Steinbergers by several years)
Simon Farmer - Gus Guitars
Steve Chick - Peavey CyberBass, Industrial Radio
Christopher Willcox - Lightwave
Jerome Little - Little Guitar Works
Michael V Pedulla - Pedulla
Jens Ritter
Rolf Spuler
Rob Green - Status

[Kiwi]

Ned is top of the list for me - his designs are an inspired combination of elegance and function.

I think Ned stood on Leo's shoulders and took things a step beyond what Leo accomplished. Possibly because he was able to take advantage of technological developments in materials and manufacturing. But most of the stuff Ned has worked on would not look out of place framed on a wall and yet his instruments remain functional and innovative without being gimmicky. So there's some integrity and authenticity to his work.

Honourable mentions:
Michael Pedulla - for his buzz basses, beautiful and distinctive. The necks on his instruments are amazing.
Geoff Gould - for his pioneering work with composites
Rick Turner/Ron Wickersham - for pioneering neck laminates and studio quality electronics in Alembics

[Roland Rock]

also Philip Kubicki

[BassBus]

Ned steinberger has to be second. Like Leo Fender he moved things forward. After him it all becomes a bit subjective. No-one else has really moved things on in the same way.

[EMG456]

Pretty much agree... Leo, then Ned - two professional designers who were not players and perhaps because of that brought huge "outside of the box" thinking to the party.

In terms of influence over many years, mention must go to Rick Turner and Ron Wickersham of Alembic - multi laminate wood construction and active electronics. Rick Turner also developed the first graphite necks with Geoff Gould who started Modulus.

And Roger Rossmeisl - like 'em or loathe 'em the Rickenbacker 4000 series is still one of the design icons of the electric bass world. Rossmeisl also gave Phillip Kubicki his start when he was working for Fender.

Cheers

Ed

Apologies Kiwi - didn't notice you'd already made the case for the Alembic/ Modulus guys!

Edited May 7, 2014 by EMG456

[muttley]

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1399445854' post='2444216']
Ned steinberger has to be second. Like Leo Fender he moved things forward. After him it all becomes a bit subjective. No-one else has really moved things on in the same way.
[/quote]

This. Fender (and his partners) gave us the mass produced fretted electric bass guitar and that was a major innovation in musical instrument technology and manufacture. I don't think anyone can doubt that.

Steinberger put the tuners at the "wrong" end and changed the shape. Proper innovation.

After that it's mostly fluff. Everything is more or less just a copy of everything else. I don't mean a facsimile copy but a functional one.

I think honorable mentions need to go to:
1. the first successful implementation of active electronics (Alembic?).
2. the first straight-through neck (Alembic again, Tobias or someone else?)
3. successful silly/distinctive shaped basses like the Thunderbird and Rickenbacker.
4. Wal. Just because.

[Bassassin]

I'd have said Rick Turner/Alembic for the reasons previously mentioned - multi-laminate necks/bodies, first graphite neck, active electronics, and anecdotally the first 5-string.

Also Rossmeisl/Rickenbacker, pretty sure the original 1957 Rick 4000 was the first-through-neck bass.

Jon.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bassassin

[Bassassin]

And lets not forget Paul Tutmarc, who made the first fretted electric bass, some 15 years earlier than that nice Mr Fender.

J.

[chrismuzz]

Surprised there aren't more mentions of the fanned fret design. (I don't know if it was Sheldon Dingwall who first came up with it or not). It may not have caught on in a huge way (yet) but who knows?

[blablas]

Sheldon Dingwall is not the one who came up with the idea, it was Ralph Novak's brainchild.

[quote name='wiki']In 1989, Novak patented a new type of fret arrangement which he called the “fanned fret”.[/quote]

[TheGreek]

Nobody here ever seen a GB Rumour then???

[url="http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/FairfaxAikman/media/GB%20Rumour/GBRumour003-1.jpg.html"][/url]

Not only beautiful but well balanced and superb tones...probably why you don't see too many used examples for sale..

Put Bernie Goodfellow's name up there...

Edited May 7, 2014 by TheGreek

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1399459887' post='2444374']
And lets not forget Paul Tutmarc, who made the first fretted electric bass, some 15 years earlier than that nice Mr Fender.

J.
[/quote]
I'd put him ahead of Leo Fender. Leo took the instrument and mass marketed it, he never invented it. He did give what could have been a nice looking instrument a hideous top horn*, so he drops several places from the top 5 designers because of this.

My top designer, for aesthetics alone, would probably be Jens Ritter.


*This is my opinion, some folk actually like it!

[Musicman20]

As much as some of it might be minor innovation, I still think the EBMM company as a whole are like no other bass/guitar company in that they:

- Don't just mass produce - virtually everything is ordered by a customer;
- They attempt to make everything in house;
- They try new ideas, all the time, and their electronics are, IMO, faultless. E.g., Bongo 4 band EQ, neo pups in the Bongo/Big Al, crazy switching on the Big Al/Reflex, and the Gamechanger bass;
- Ergonomics - they just 'work'...;
- Bongo bass shape and overall idea - pushing the boundaries and still pleasing a lot of players despite the shape and style;
- Truss rod wheel. Every bass should have this;
- Never letting things stay stale;
- Armada Guitar and Majesty Guitar.....

[shizznit]

My vote has to be Leo Fender. The P and J bass set the bench mark for most designs from other manufacturers base their designs on ever since. Huge moment in musical instrument history for bass

[Muzz]

Ray Dietrich - for a car designer, he made a great job of the Thunderbird and Firebirds...

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399466629' post='2444487']
- Truss rod wheel. Every bass should have this;

[/quote]
Pretty common on MIJ instruments from the 60s onwards, not sure who used it first but you see it on a lot of early Kawais and Guyatones. Same with the 6-bolt neckplate.

J.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1399492895' post='2444815']

Pretty common on MIJ instruments from the 60s onwards, not sure who used it first but you see it on a lot of early Kawais and Guyatones. Same with the 6-bolt neckplate.

J.
[/quote]

I think Sadowsky uses them but Fender don't seem to...which is daft.

[Grand Wazoo]

Fender / Alembic / Wal / Steinberger / Kubicki / JD / Ken Smith / Spector / Vigier are part of what I consider the all time Hall of Fame of the past, but in current times, if you asked me who are the best bass designers of the present which will echo as much as the above guys for years to come, I would have the following in no particular order.

Jens Ritter / Sheldon Dingwall / Xotic / Skjold / Rob Allen / Fodera are definitely up there in my opinion.

[bh2]

Well... I never met Leo, but I have three of his finest... I had the great pleasure of meeting Mr Wal once, so he would defo be on my list. My good ol mate Mr Karn loved his basses..

I also had a bass by H Noble... he is also on the list (don't tell him Pike!), although I've heard he's a made up geezer.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='bh2' timestamp='1399706998' post='2446788']
I also had a bass by H Noble... he is also on the list (don't tell him Pike!), although I've heard he's a made up geezer.
[/quote]
Not exactly made up - Hayashi-san is held in high esteeem by many MIJ fans:

[url="http://www.matsumoku.org/nobuaki_hayashi.html"]http://www.matsumoku...ki_hayashi.html[/url]

Arguably his Atlansias are more innovative than the Aria/Matsumoku designs he's best known for.

J.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1399463776' post='2444445']
Nobody here ever seen a GB Rumour then???

[url="http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/FairfaxAikman/media/GB%20Rumour/GBRumour003-1.jpg.html"][/url]

Not only beautiful but well balanced and superb tones...probably why you don't see too many used examples for sale..

Put Bernie Goodfellow's name up there...
[/quote] great looking bass... but for folk like me who are too young to have been around when they were in fashion... can you explain what's so great about them? And what does Bernie do that pushes the design of bass forward beyond Alembic which to my eyes it follows?
[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399466629' post='2444487']
As much as some of it might be minor innovation, I still think the EBMM company as a whole are like no other bass/guitar company in that they:

- Don't just mass produce - virtually everything is ordered by a customer;
- They attempt to make everything in house;
- They try new ideas, all the time, and their electronics are, IMO, faultless. E.g., Bongo 4 band EQ, neo pups in the Bongo/Big Al, crazy switching on the Big Al/Reflex, and the Gamechanger bass;
- Ergonomics - they just 'work'...;
- Bongo bass shape and overall idea - pushing the boundaries and still pleasing a lot of players despite the shape and style;
- Truss rod wheel. Every bass should have this;
- Never letting things stay stale;
- Armada Guitar and Majesty Guitar.....
[/quote] I'll give you the Bongo... though perhaps BMW should take credit for that one, but I'm not sure the rest of it is innovation in bass design (beyond what Leo did while there) more than a very good business plan and attempts to try the odd new thing out.
[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1399443713' post='2444198']
Michael Pedulla - for his buzz basses, beautiful and distinctive. The necks on his instruments are amazing.
[/quote] I've seen Pedulla's for sale, was offered one in a trade once even... know very little about them - care to elaborate a bit more about them please?

Edited May 10, 2014 by LukeFRC

[stingraybassman]

I'm not sure anyone will be able to create anything as timeless as Leo? A lot of the names mentioned have created things that have to me, become dated.

In terms of innovation, I agree all these guys have pushed things forward. It wouldn't surprise me if we were talking about Dingwalls in 30 years as an iconic design.