Barefaced Cabs - Retro six10 and Retro Two2

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1399630179' post='2445986'] Just like a Ferrari is built to go fast. The same logic applies... The harder you run something, more wear & tear you put on the parts. The lower the Ω the more current is going through the amp's components. Current = heat & heat reduces the life of the components. They might well last the full time that you have your amp, but if you can get a great sound with plenty of volume* and not have to run the amp as hot, why would that be a bad thing? * "Sound & Volume"... I've never heard one of these cabs, so I can only go on what I've read. For all I know, I might not like the sound. [/quote]

I think you are missing the point.

Running a Ferrari fast is not the same as trying to get the same performance out of a Berlingo. If you cripple the performance of the Berlingo, you are going to end up with something very crap.

[JTUK]

If your amp wont run all day at 4 ohms..I'd suggest the amp is a pile of .... tbh.

Depends on the thinking behind this.... I think it is more about lightweight per cab, but then that
is nowhere near a one solution cab anymore.
FWIW...if it were me and I wanted 6x10 or 8x10, I'd have one....( and the advantages are stack height to ears )
but the company I'd buy from doesn't do a 610... and I can't go to 810 for the amount of gigs it would do at the cost.

I can do it from a modular POV with 212 plus 210 ...but stacking 212 plus 210 plus 210 really means 1x 210 is stacked to the drummer and
the gigs that I could do that on have decent monitors and fills anyway. Basically, I need to sell a 210 as nice idea but not joined up thinking.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1399630404' post='2445991']
I think you are missing the point.

Running a Ferrari fast is not the same as trying to get the same performance out of a Berlingo. If you cripple the performance of the Berlingo, you are going to end up with something very crap.
[/quote]
Where did the Berlingo come from? Was it towing your Ferrari?

Forget cars. Amps are designed to run down to their stated Ωs, but at a risk of increased heat. Yes they have fans, heatsinks & other protective measures, but the laws of physics still apply to it.
If someone designs a cab that produces the same db as a good 8Ω cab running from the same amp, but reduces the heat on the amp, why is that a bad thing?

Going back to cars. It's like your Ferrari having 5 gears & mine having 6. Going into 6th is going to put less strain on the engine.

[Musicman20]

I understand it may mean that your amp isn't running so 'hot', I just don't see why getting less from your amp would mean it is definitely louder than most 8 ohm 2x10s...

I'm guessing three of these would mean a 4 ohm load? Hence the same speakers as the 6x10? So, in a way, its just another way to make a cab without having a different spec speaker? (Makes business sense I guess, for money purposes).

Edited May 9, 2014 by Musicman20

[charic]

The only advantage to the 12Ohm cab I can see... it could mean I could use my Hartke kilo at practice volumes at home!

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399631102' post='2446007']
I'm guessing three of these would mean a 4 ohm load? Hence the same speakers as the 6x10?[/quote]

A modular, 4 ohm, 6x10 - costing £1200?!

Not sure that's a particularly big section of the market...

[Beer of the Bass]

Getting the full power out of your amp by running the minimum impedance doesn't mean a lot when the excursion limit of the cab is less than the rated power of the amp. This will usually be the case with a high powered amp (like most modern solid state heads) running into a 2x10". So it's quite possible that a 12 ohm cab could get louder than another 8 ohm cab with the same amp if the excursion limited power is higher.
Some of the responses here seem almost angry, which I find odd. If a product doesn't tick your boxes, choose something else. You don't have to rail against it's very existence.
For others not bothered by the 12 ohm impedance, a lightweight cabinet aimed at a particular old-school colouration, with the .5 alignment for improved dispersion could make for a useful option. I'm not likely to change my cabs any time soon, but I'd be intrigued to hear what these sound like.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399631425' post='2446016']
A modular, 4 ohm, 6x10 - costing £1200?!

Not sure that's a particularly big section of the market...
[/quote]

No, very doubtful, I agree, but using the same speakers and not having to change specs makes business sense to me.

[skychaserhigh]

I don't have a Ferrari or a Berlingo , I have a Mondeo.....where do I stand in this discussion ??

[Dad3353]

To me (... and I'm aware that I'm not 'typical'...) the impedance is of little importance, as I use valve heads, with impedance switching. I'd adapt the amp o/p trannie to the cab, whatever the impedance. As it seems that the concept of these cabs is rather towards these 'old school' valve amps, there doesn't seem much of a problem. No, I'm not able financially to go for these, but if I was looking anywhere for cabs, back in the day, these would be just about the most interesting out there, in both sizes. Having humped around (for others...) Ampeg fridges and Leslie cabs for quite long enough, the lightweight aspect appeals to me, and the modularity, even at slightly more cost, is a definite 'plus'. I've not heard them, either, but from the description I'd say that they represent my ultimate in sound (did I mention that I'm 'old school'..?). In present circumstances, and being realistic with my 'needs', I'm not the market for these. Almost worth buying a lottery ticket for, though; then I'd be tempted.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Dad3353

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399631102' post='2446007']
I understand it may mean that your amp isn't running so 'hot', I just don't see why getting less from your amp would mean it is definitely louder than most 8 ohm 2x10s...
[/quote]

It doesn't, but how loud a thing is has more to do with the driver's parameters such as excursion & SPL & how the cab has been designed & less about the watts & ohms.

[JPJ]

Its probably fair to say that we are a conservative lot and have for years been fed speaker cabinets in 4 and 8 ohm nominal impedance variants by the big company marketing depts. so are less tolerant of other numbers. I for one remember the 3x10 5.33ohm cabs of not so long ago, and the fact that these have more or less disappeared suggests that our love of 4 & 8 is pretty deeply engrained.

I currently run a (nominally 4ohm) 6x10 as my main cab and I love it. It does exactly what I want it to do and it 'sounds' like I want it to 'sound' but here's the rub, the manufacturer is no longer in business. Getting spare drivers therefore is a no-no so if (when) a driver or two give up the ghost, I'll have no alternative but to recone the thing using proprietary 4 or 8 ohm drivers for a nominal (you guessed it) 5.33ohm load.

I continue to be intrigued by the Barefaced story, but not intrigued enough yet to part with any cash (sorry Alex). I felt I really understood the 'science' behind the original three-way cabs and having heard my bass through top end three-way PA gear, I could see the rationale. However, now the story has changed to 'actually two-way is just as good' which concerns me and makes me wonder whether the latest recruit at Barefaced HQ isn't an accountant. I get what Alex is trying to do, and I've heard a number of his cabs 'in real life' situations and as a result, I think I understand what this lack of colouration means. I'm still not sure that this transparency is what I would like behind me, but one-day I know I'm going to have to part with the cash and find out for myself, but the latest Gen3 stuff does make me wonder whether he isn't heading a little more 'main stream'.

[discreet]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1399633898' post='2446069']
I don't have a Ferrari or a Berlingo , I have a Mondeo.....where do I stand in this discussion ??
[/quote]

On the hard shoulder?

Barefaced threads always seem to polarise opinion on this forum for some reason - I'm really not sure why - jealousy, perhaps?
If you don't like the idea of Barefaced cabs and don't agree with Alex's philosophy, then [i]don't buy one[/i]. Simples.
I'm sure Alex won't be bothered in the least - he's too busy trying to keep up with demand.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399634423' post='2446082']
On the hard shoulder?

Barefaced threads always seem to polarise opinion on this forum for some reason - I'm really not sure why - jealousy, perhaps?
If you don't like the idea of Barefaced cabs and don't agree with Alex's philosophy, then [i]don't buy one[/i]. Simples.
I'm sure Alex won't be bothered in the least - he's too busy trying to keep up with demand.
[/quote]

It definitely polarises opinion. Some do get very passionate one way or the other!

[JTUK]

yep... and the amps and cabs section updates can be dominated with their NCD etc threads and posts.
So, just what we need... another thread about them.

I am down to 4 forums I regularly check through.... I rather it not be 3..

[skychaserhigh]

I'm putting the kettle on again.....by the way , I like my Mondeo , it runs at 4 ohms all day long....

[Musicman20]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399635598' post='2446097']
yep... and the amps and cabs section updates can be dominated with their NCD etc threads and posts.
[/quote]

+1

[xgsjx]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1399635965' post='2446101']
I'm putting the kettle on again.....by the way , I like my Mondeo , it runs at 4 ohms all day long....
[/quote]

I hoe you've bought a decent lead for your kettle!

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/236062-theyre-havin-a-laff/

[Conan]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399632328' post='2446040']Some of the responses here seem almost angry, which I find odd. If a product doesn't tick your boxes, choose something else. You don't have to rail against it's very existence.[/quote]

I totally agree with you - but clearly some other members don't. And they DO seem to think that their mission in life is to rail against the very existence of Barefaced Bass, its owner and its products. All a bit sad and tedious really. One would think that they would have better things to do...

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399635598' post='2446097']
yep... and the amps and cabs section updates can be dominated with their NCD etc threads and posts.
So, just what we need... another thread about them.
[/quote]

Are you suggesting owners of Barefaced products be banned from posting New Cab Day threads?

There are a lot of people on this forum who don't like Fender products either.
Perhaps owners of Fender basses should be banned from posting New Bass Day threads as well?

I would have thought that if Barefaced (or Fender, or any other product) threads are that offensive, it would be a simple matter to avoid them? No-one is forcing anyone to read any threads about any product they don't like, for whatever arcane reason!

This very thread's title starts with the words 'Barefaced Cabs' - what did you think it was going to be about??

If you find bass gear threads offensive on a what is essentially a bass gear forum that majors in multiple bass gear threads, I'm afraid you're going to spend most of your time here feeling quite offended!

Edited May 9, 2014 by discreet

[Musicman20]

It always end up being offended owners vs those who aren't so taken with the cabs.

[BassBod]

I find this an interesting move for two reasons - the impedance issue and the "coloration" issue.

I've always understood cab impedance to be very nominal - although its quoted as an absolute value, in electrical terms its anything but. And I've experienced problems from a reputable manufacturer slapping an 8ohm label on a cab, when the driver inside was labelled 4ohm. I had no idea why my amp was going into thermal protection (with a pair of 8ohm cabs) until a few years later, when the driver came out of the cab. The modular 2 or 4 or 6x10 makes perfect sense to me.

I've now tried several of the modern "flat response" type cabs, and I find them hard work to eq. I prefer the "musical response" built into cabs like the Bag End S15, and most of the old SWR boxes (although they can be a bit too voiced). I hadn't expected to see BF go in this direction, but I expect they will will do it well and only produce designs that work in the gigging environment. The original Compact had a very useful voicing, so now they have more control over driver design I assume they can also be more accurate in how far they go with neutral/voiced cabs.

Looking forward to seeing how this goes..

PS - I'm waiting for a powered Super Compact...hint hint...eh?

Edited May 9, 2014 by BassBod

[xgsjx]

I wasn't offended. I don't even own a BF cab (that's not to say that I wouldn't use one).
I was merely offering some useful information.

& I like the New Cab/Bass/Amp/FX Day threads. They let the OP spread their joy & we get an insight to their opinion of the item & to find out if it's something that we could be interested in.

Edited May 9, 2014 by xgsjx

[discreet]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399641847' post='2446209']
It always end up being offended owners vs those who aren't so taken with the cabs.
[/quote]

...And vice-versa. I'm not an offended owner - I just don't get why this always happens with Barefaced products. When someone posts a NCD or other thread about Bergantino or Aguilar cabs you don't get this, do you? Why not?

Edited May 9, 2014 by discreet

[xgsjx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399642280' post='2446216']
...And vice-versa. I'm not an offended owner - I just don't get why this always happens with Barefaced products. When someone posts a NCD or other thread about Bergantino or Aguilar cabs you don't get this, do you? Why not?
[/quote]

Because they have silly names that no one knows how to properly pronounce!