When is a bass considered a "high end" bass?

[EMG456]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1399984079' post='2449565']


I don't know why you're getting so angry about a hypothetical bass you might not even order.

For the record I really like Wals.
[/quote]

Not wishing to second guess the gent in question but it just might have been a reaction to your own diatribe above re "classic '80s cliche nouveau riche types" and "fat ex- postman lottery winners"??

I don't think you'd like my Wal probably... it's got a quilt maple top, five strings, gold hardware and midi. Oops!

Cheers

Ed

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1399980629' post='2449515']
Really not understanding the resentment towards people owning expensive instruments. I figure if someone can afford something and they want it then why not.
[/quote]
+1. I am 50 plus, a weekend warrior and own one high end bass that I purchased several years ago, when I had extra cash lying around and a s**t load of gigs in the diary. However this was far from a luxury purchase, as I needed to acquire a really light weight bass due to shoulder/ back problems. The standard off the shelf Fenders are way too heavy for me, so I went for high end and am well pleased.
It has paid for itself several times over, help put food on the table and saved me a fortune on physio. A real plus here is that I have a bass playing friend who has offered to buy the bass off me, should I ever want to sell it, for what I paid for it. (not that I can see that ever happening, but nice to know that I can recoup 100% of my investment if ever it suits me).
I have no difficulty seeing a pro using a Squire jazz (excellent value by the way) if that's what suits, but likewise I think it is unjustified that anyone would be critical of my my decision to go high end.
.

Edited May 13, 2014 by leroydiamond

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1399985134' post='2449582']
I don't think you'd like my Wal probably... it's got a quilt maple top, five strings, gold hardware and midi. Oops!

[/quote]

Your sounds a bit further down the line than mine... mine currently looks like this....



Only a year to go!


*Edit* I'm also not a postman....

Edited May 13, 2014 by CamdenRob

[Dingus]

Yes, there is plenty of reverse snobbery and resentment about owning relatively expensive instruments. How much it is motivated by jealousy, I wouldn't even want to speculate, but let's call a spade a spade.

As well as people who work hard and save for a bass there are people who have plenty of money to whom three or four grand for a bass isn't a particularly huge outlay. Plenty of people spend more than that on a luxury two week holiday and have nothing much to show for it at the end, and with no guarantee that they will have enjoyed themselves, either. On the other hand, as well as being a gobsmackingly fabulous bass to own and play, a Wal is a great investment nowadays. Look at the prices of the ones changing hands on Basschat.

Just because someone aspires to the best quality instruments, that doesn't make them a dilettante. Of course, you don't necessarily need an expensive, high end bass to play, but if you can afford one then why not?

[Dingus]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1399985400' post='2449584']
Your sounds a bit further down the line than mine... mine currently looks like this....



Only a year to go!


*Edit* I'm also not a postman....
[/quote]

That decking is going to look fabulous when it's finished Rob. Four grand though?

[EMG456]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1399985400' post='2449584']


Your sounds a bit further down the line than mine... mine currently looks like this....



Only a year to go!


*Edit* I'm also not a postman....
[/quote]

Looking good Rob!

Yeah, mine came trundling out of High Wycombe in '92 or '93 - I've forgotten when exactly!

[sykilz]

In the interests of trying to restore some parity, I am a postman. But I don't have a swimming pool. Sorry. Glad some of you like postmen though, it can be a lonely job.


Oh and my basses aren't high end, unless a ten year old Corvette and a Mex Jazz count, and by anyones standards, I would guess not...!!!😄

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1399985978' post='2449591']
That decking is going to look fabulous when it's finished Rob. Four grand though?
[/quote]

Yes I'm going for a bit of a B&Q vibe with my basses at the moment... Apperantely it has to sit for a month or so longer then the fingerboard goes on.

[quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1399986014' post='2449592']
Looking good Rob!

Yeah, mine came trundling out of High Wycombe in '92 or '93 - I've forgotten when exactly!
[/quote]

This time next year mine is due. I'm going to see Paul a bit further down the line to sort out what top I want... quite like the idea of choosing from a seasonal selection.

Edited May 13, 2014 by CamdenRob

[UglyDog]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1399985870' post='2449589']
Yes, there is plenty of reverse snobbery and resentment about owning relatively expensive instruments. How much it is motivated by jealousy, I wouldn't even want to speculate, but let's call a spade a spade.
[/quote]
Yes. On this thread in particluar, and the forum in general, it strikes me that the inverse snobbery outweighs the actual snobbery by quite a long way. I've never managed to work out why some people get so wound up by the idea of a quilted top or whatever that they feel compelled to pour scorn not only on the basses themselves but also their 'typical' owners.

[Scooby]

I think the whole thing about 'high-end' basses is extremely subjective. I suppose there is a certain 'age' aspect to the issue - similar to middle-aged men driving sports cars and then going to the physio later after they've ricked their back getting in and out of the car! Some folk will buy a bass simply because the player they admire uses one e.g. Wooten and Fodera, Squire and R (can't say the whole word ).
If it's purchasing an expensive bass simply to let people know you have an expensive bass so what - although I can't see the point. However, if you can ignore the price tag and simply play the bass and it feels and sounds right then the price tag is incidental - providing you have sufficient funds to buy the bass in the first place. Just because somebody says a certain bass is high end, or a high profile player uses one, it doesn't make that bass any better than any other bass. Sometimes I think the best way to choose/buy a bass is to go into a completely dark room, play as many basses as you can and purchase based purely on feel and sound. Then switch the light on and pay the price. Simple...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1399986699' post='2449606']
Yes. On this thread in particluar, and the forum in general, it strikes me that the inverse snobbery outweighs the actual snobbery by quite a long way. I've never managed to work out why some people get so wound up by the idea of a quilted top or whatever that they feel compelled to pour scorn not only on the basses themselves but also their 'typical' owners.
[/quote]

To be fair, it's only a tiny minority. I'd imagine 99% of BC-ers ignore all that nonsense, preferring instead to take pleasure in the idea of other people enjoying their instruments - at whatever price point.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited May 13, 2014 by skankdelvar

[Dingus]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1399987797' post='2449615']
To be fair, it's only a tiny minority. I'd imagine 99% of BC-ers ignore all that nonsense, preferring instead to take pleasure in the idea of other people enjoying their instruments - at whatever price point.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]
[/quote]

Well said, Skank.

I expect most people are interested to see and hear about high end basses, whether or not they are in the market to buy one themselves, for whatever reason that may be.

I personally don't necessarily categorize basses as high end or otherwise. Nowadays when I look at a bass, I am wondering how much fun I could have playing it. And you can have just as much fun playing a relatively inexpensive bass as you can playing a "high end" one.

[Dingus]

To ask a slightly provocative question, is a vintage Fender a high end bass?

Even the controversial late 1970's Fenders are commanding price tags comparable with exotic boutique basses. Do the best examples of older Fender basses have certain inherent qualities in their antiquity that puts them on a par with modern uber-basses?

[RhysP]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1399993263' post='2449682']
To ask a slightly provocative question, is a vintage Fender a high end bass?
[/quote]

I'd say not, it's a mass produced instrument that has aquired a similar price tag to a modern "High End" bass on account of it's supposed desirability.
That's just me though.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1399993263' post='2449682']
To ask a slightly provocative question, is a vintage Fender a high end bass? Even the controversial late 1970's Fenders are commanding price tags comparable with exotic boutique basses. Do the best examples of older Fender basses have certain inherent qualities in their antiquity that puts them on a par with modern uber-basses?
[/quote]

This question came up recently in another thread, I forget which. It depends on whether you view vintage Fenders as collectible antiques as well as instruments, in which case they can be high-end collectibles. If you see all basses as purely instruments to be played then vintage Fenders are not on a par with modern uber-basses as such if you're comparing versatility, equipment and build quality. But they can be very playable and some sound fantastic [i]if that's the sound you're looking for.[/i]

[molan]

Just a quick note on the 'age' factor.

The most recent Fodera I sold was to a student. It was a £12K instrument and he's worked several evening and part time jobs, gigged in covers and function bands plus loads of private teaching to be able to afford it.

It will be his sole instrument for all his playing

He's an amazing player and I'm fairly certain he will become a professional player of some description.

And yes, it did have a very expensive top and gold hardware

In the last year I've sold another Fodera to a music student (this was about &5K) and a fretless 5 string Wal to another.

There's definitely some young guys out there throwing everything into pursuing a career in music who are prepared to buy what they believe to be the very best instruments they can afford.

Personally I think these guys deserve a lot of respect and not the derision they seem to attract from some quarters.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1399996109' post='2449720']
There's definitely some young guys out there throwing everything into pursuing a career in music who are prepared to buy what they believe to be the very best instruments they can afford.

Personally I think these guys deserve a lot of respect and not the derision they seem to attract from some quarters.
[/quote]
I totally agree.

Edited May 13, 2014 by White Cloud

[Dingus]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1399996109' post='2449720']
Just a quick note on the 'age' factor.

The most recent Fodera I sold was to a student. It was a £12K instrument and he's worked several evening and part time jobs, gigged in covers and function bands plus loads of private teaching to be able to afford it.

It will be his sole instrument for all his playing

He's an amazing player and I'm fairly certain he will become a professional player of some description.

And yes, it did have a very expensive top and gold hardware

In the last year I've sold another Fodera to a music student (this was about &5K) and a fretless 5 string Wal to another.

There's definitely some young guys out there throwing everything into pursuing a career in music who are prepared to buy what they believe to be the very best instruments they can afford.

Personally I think these guys deserve a lot of respect and not the derision they seem to attract from some quarters.
[/quote]

I certainly wouldn't deride them.

When I was younger I used to spend every penny I had on bass gear and was quite happy to do so. It was far, far more important to me than buying a car for example, or anything like that.

I do wonder though, what this lad thinks a £12000 bass will give him over say a £5000 one? If he wants a Fodera then good luck to him and I hope it exceeds even his best expectations, I'm sure it will , but it does seem a little excessive, even to me . It's a lot of very expensive eggs to put in one basket, so to speak.

[Dingus]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1399993578' post='2449685']
I'd say not, it's a mass produced instrument that has aquired a similar price tag to a modern "High End" bass on account of it's supposed desirability.
That's just me though.
[/quote]
[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399993643' post='2449687']
This question came up recently in another thread, I forget which. It depends on whether you view vintage Fenders as collectible antiques as well as instruments, in which case they can be high-end collectibles. If you see all basses as purely instruments to be played then vintage Fenders are not on a par with modern uber-basses as such if you're comparing versatility, equipment and build quality. But they can be very playable and some sound fantastic [i]if that's the sound you're looking for.[/i]
[/quote]

I would tend to agree with both of you on all these points.

I suppose one testimony to what a great design the Fender bass is would be that, despite all the subsequent innovations and trends, the basic sound of a good Fender bass from whatever era, still holds its' own against anything that has been created subsequently, at whatever price or level of craftsmanship. That Fender sound will always be a great sound. And with a bit of skilled work, they can usually be made to play like a boutique bass.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1400003975' post='2449839']
I suppose one testimony to what a great design the Fender bass is would be that, despite all the subsequent innovations and trends, the basic sound of a good Fender bass from whatever era, still holds its' own against anything that has been created subsequently, at whatever price or level of craftsmanship. That Fender sound will always be a great sound. And with a bit of skilled work, they can usually be made to play like a boutique bass.
[/quote]

+1 Though most basses sound much of a muchness - they have more similarities than differences - [i]in my opinion[/i].

Or to put it another way, all the basses I've ever played sounded very similar - because I was playing them. So if a bass feels good and I think it looks OK then in my case there's little point spending thousands. Law of diminishing returns. Having said that, if I were rich I'd probably have a collection of uber-basses, just because I could. Along with great shedfuls of other pointless crap.

Edited May 13, 2014 by discreet

[Thunderbird]

I don't own a high end bass and I never will but if other people want to spend thousands on a bass or anything else it is up to them it is not my business or anybody else's

[EMG456]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1399991008' post='2449643']


I'd love a MIDI Wal and would be happy to sand the top off if necessary.

It's just a matter of taste isn't it, there's no point getting all worked up about it.
[/quote]

Haha, good man- I actually did LOL there!

[Platypus]

http://youtu.be/jtcpHc4UVbA

[Ziphoblat]

I think much of the so-called "reverse snobbery" stems simply from the implications of the term "high-end"; as if the instrument being more expensive somehow improves the primary purpose (that is; as an instrument) as opposed to simply adding more detail to the aesthetics and a further level of customisation. There's occasionally an air of the attitude that a player is somehow more serious about, or even better at his playing because he's spent £k's on his instrument (such as the notion that somebody who plays a Fender is somehow unable to be sophisticated and/or discerning). I think the sheer volume of talented/"high-end" players out there who could afford these instruments but tend to avoid them speaks volumes on that matter. That's not to diminish boutique or expensive instruments in any way, but I think it's important to have a clear understanding of where diminishing returns reach the point that increasing the value of something simply adds more customisation rather than increased functionality or usability as an instrument.

[ambient]

So where do orchestral players whose instruments can cost £20, 000 or more come into all of this ?

I'm most definitely not middle aged, a lottery winner or rich.

I'm a music student who wanted a bass that would do everything I wanted it to do, after a few years of searching and trying different instruments, I found [i]the one[/i] in my Modulus.

Is it 'high-end' ? I don't know, at £1500 it cost me about half of one of my student loan payments, but to me it's worth every penny.