Bass - the easy option?

[geoham]

Excuse the minor rant.....

My twelve year old kid has been learning guitar. He's doing okay, but he's getting frustrated with himself because he can't play like Angus Young after nine months. Keeps finding tabs & YouTube tutorials for songs he'd like to play, but simply doesn't have the skills yet. He then keeps practising this stuff, and not bothering with the stuff he should be doing - that is, the pieces his teacher has asked him to practice! (Which are in fairness not very rock, but I can see what it's teaching him)

Tonight, he hits out with the infamous line - 'I'm thinking about moving to bass, because it's much easier'.

When I challenged him on it, he retracted it a little, saying he meant it's easier to get started on. When I asked him to explain - apparently you just need to play with one finger (not complex chords!), don't need to change that note to often and need to play much slower. With a lot of the rubbish he listens to (metal & emo!), I suppose there is a grain of truth there - he could potentially feel like he's playing the stuff he likes a bit quicker.

Now, I can play both guitar and bass, but I've been hesitant to play the teacher role - since he has one of those for guitar. I'd gladly show him some bass basics, but not just because he thinks it's 'easy'. And I definitely don't want him abandoning the guitar!

Thoughts?

[xgsjx]

Bass is certainly an easier instrument to get started on, but I found that it progressively gets harder. It's easier to make a solo guitar sound good than it is a solo bass to the untrained ear.
There's many can strum a few chords on the guitar & get folk singing along for an entire evening, but if you're not skilled on bass, you try doing that on bass & see how many folk still enjoy it after the 2nd song.
I'd encourage your son to learn as many instruments as he can. Get him on keys, strings & brass too if you can, the more he learns, the more of a musician he becomes.

I wouldn't discourage him from picking up the bass, he'd probably pick up the guitar again as he gets more comfortable.

Alternatively, you could show him some Victor Wooten or Billy Sheehan & ask him if he still thinks is an easy instrument.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Metal is not rubbish. Not everyone's cup of tea, but no need to generalise;) .H ow long has he being seeing the teacher .?
Is it a paid teacher, or school teacher? What he could do, is ask teacher to learn him one song that he likes.
He should incorporate that with his ordinary lesson.imho.
What does he sound like, when you hear him? Could he do with an effects unit for motivation?
He could learn bass also. Why not ?

[discreet]

I learnt to play guitar to a fairly proficient level before I picked up a bass, so I can't say whether it's easier to start playing bass from scratch. The way I play it is more about its rhythmic, percussive side than any perceived musical virtuosity I may or may not have. In a band situation I always feel I'm closer to the drums than any other instrument.

Having said that you can see why people might think bass is easier. It's only got four strings, innit? Stands to reason!

Edited May 11, 2014 by discreet

[LukeFRC]

could his teacher teach him the technical stuff and you teach him to rock on the guitar.

My thinking is that one of the best ways to learn is with other people... and a computer drum beat and you on bass (and the ability to start slow and get it up to speed) might be quite fun for both of you.




You might even end up learning a load of metal and emo songs!

[KingBollock]

Sometimes Bass is the easier (not easy) option, but only because I believe some people are more naturally inclined to a particular instrument.

I started on Bass and I think I got lucky in finding the right instrument for me early on. I have been playing guitar for only a couple of years less than Bass, but, even though I use chords, I still play it like a Bass player. I am the same with Banjo and Ukulele, too. I get told I even look like a Bass player.

I will never forget the time a mate of mine, a ridiculously naturally talented guitarist, picked up my Bass for the first time and had a go. A few minutes later he handed it back, shaking the pain out of his hands... "Not as easy as it looks, is it?". I had no idea he even thought it was easy in the first place.

Edited May 11, 2014 by KingBollock

[xgsjx]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1399843457' post='2448331']
I will never forget the time a mate of mine, a ridiculously naturally talented guitarist, picked up my Bass for the first time and had a go. A few minutes later he handed it back, shaking the pain out of his hands... "Not as easy as it looks, is it?". I had no idea he even thought it was easy in the first place.
[/quote]

I had a similar thing from a previous drummer (who played guitar & keys pretty well too). Had an instrument swap & said "How can you play that thing. The strings are like curtain rails & you have to push hard to get a note."

[HowieBass]

I originally went for bass (many, many years ago) because I thought it would be easier to play along with my keyboardist friend since he was handling most of the melody (but clearly could also play bass lines when he wanted and I could develop some melodic lines). As it happens I think I made the right choice but for two additional reasons; firstly I'm not the type who wants the spotlight so playing bass allowed me to avoid being deemed a frontman; secondly the tuning arrangement seemed very logical, transpositions are easy and my visual way of thinking seemed to be completely suited to working with shapes on the fretboard; add to that the fact that bass tabs are very manageable for someone who can't read the dots and it was a no-brainer for me. Of course, the further you get into playing bass the more you discover that it's just as much a challenge as many other instruments but for me the simpler entry point made sense and it worked.

[miles'tone]

To be fair to him I tried learning guitar half arsed when I was a kid, learned one song in 6 months. Moved to bass and learned four songs the first night! (2 Police, 2 Bob Marley) the smile on my face!
Much easier and more fun to begin on.
Much harder to be good at later on IMO. If the bass screws up, EVERYONE notices! The guitar, not so much.

[discreet]

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1399845107' post='2448351']
Much harder to be good at later on IMO. If the bass screws up, EVERYONE notices! The guitar, not so much.
[/quote]

Learning the material is obviously important, but the ability to play bass in time is often overlooked for some reason. Timing is the responsibility of all band members - but as you pointed out, if the bass (and/or drums) go tits-up, it can be train-smash time.

Edited May 11, 2014 by discreet

[geoham]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1399843237' post='2448327']
Metal is not rubbish. Not everyone's cup of tea, but no need to generalise;) .H ow long has he being seeing the teacher .?
Is it a paid teacher, or school teacher? What he could do, is ask teacher to learn him one song that he likes.
He should incorporate that with his ordinary lesson.imho.
What does he sound like, when you hear him? Could he do with an effects unit for motivation?
He could learn bass also. Why not ?
[/quote]

Of course his music is rubbish! He wouldn't enjoy it if I approved of it! He'd end up listening to some real rubbish! (We do have ACDC in common....)

He gets a 30 minute private lesson at school once a week. He often 'forgets' to go though. He does however practice every night - his own choice. He sounds quite precise, but very rigid with stutters to get fingering just right. He'll loosen up with time, sure we were all like that. He keeps at it though!

He has a couple of distortion boxes, and is currently saving for a Blackstar tube modelling amp. Maybe a Zoom G3 would be a good investment. Cheap as chips, loads of weird noises, but decent piece of kit for when he joins band or whatever.

i'm going to to teach him some bass. Just want to get the 'easy' attitude out of him!

[thisnameistaken]

I think the thing that makes bass instruments 'easy' is that there's often not a lot of room for creativity. Metal is a classic example.

One of my current bands develops songs from ideas that begin in the rehearsal room, and I find myself playing a lot of melodies just for the sake of the rehearsal recording, knowing that they'll end up being played on a synth or being a vocal part, and I'll be doing a 2-bar loop.

It sort of suggests that I would be more use if I wasn't a bass player.

[Number6]

Metal is rubbish.....again :-( seems a fairly common thread throughout the forum.....oh dear

[Annoying Twit]

I'd say that they are of similar difficulty. For every root note plodder bass player, there's a three cowboy chord folkie who can't play F or Bb and only has one strum and uses a capo to change key. Or a rock guitarist who only knows power chords and 16ths rhythm. It's the degree to which a player wants to take things beyond the minimum possible that defines the difficulty.

Learning to play guitar as well as Noel Gallagher, or to play bass as well as Percy Jones. Which is more difficult?

Edited May 12, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[Jazzneck]

Easy? I had a similar conversation with my Grandson a few weeks ago, so I gave him this to play along with using my short scale bass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Z9-QCmZyw

He eventually did it all the way through admitting that he was exhausted at the end.

His other comment?

"Not easy Grandad. You can't stop. You've got to be spot-on and disciplined, haven't you?"

I smiled........

[Conan]

Bass is definitely easier[b][i] for me[/i][/b]...

My big, fat fingers make accurate fretting of a six string just about impossible.

Still, I wouldn't have it any other way. I always felt drawn to the bass parts of the music I listened to - even before I played any instruments at all. I had lessons on piano, guitar and trombone when I was at school and just never gelled with any of them. Then, in 1978, I heard Jeff Wayne's version of War of the Worlds.

Herbie showed me the way!

I would also say that it is easy to play bass, but very hard to play bass well. By "well", I mean solidly and creatively. In a band context, a bass player is like a referee in sport - the good ones seldom get noticed by the fans, but the bad ones spoil everyone's enjoyment!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Conan

[miles'tone]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1399878206' post='2448440']
I'd say that they are of similar difficulty. For every root note plodder bass player, there's a three cowboy chord folkie who can't play F or Bb and only has one strum and uses a capo to change key. Or a rock guitarist who only knows power chords and 16ths rhythm. It's the degree to which a player wants to take things beyond the minimum possible that defines the difficulty.

Learning to play guitar as well as Noel Gallagher, or to play bass as well as Percy Jones. Which is more difficult?
[/quote]

Well said there.

[stoo]

I had a similar conversation with my GF's kid.... so I promised him £50 if he can do a passable version of Hit me with your Rhythm Stick.

He's not there yet, but the cockiness to practice ratio has changed quite a bit, and he's making surprisingly good progress!

[Dr.Dave]

It's healthy for a 12 year old to be into music that irritates his parents , I think. That's just rock and roll ! Even if I'm wrong it's certainly a good thing for a youngster to get playing his or her own fave music as soon as possible , that encourages interest and practise. Back in the day I'd have had lessons if there'd have been anybody around that didn't just want me to play 3 blind mice and something by Beethoven and I'd probably be a better player for it. As for bass being easier - no question , to my mind , that you can get to a standard where you can play with other musicians in front of joe public quicker than you can on guitar. How far you take it on after that level is up to you , same as any instrument. Besides - I can never do with this bass v guitar thing . A bass - as most of us here define it - IS a guitar.

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1399878206' post='2448440']


Learning to play guitar as well as Noel Gallagher, or to play bass as well as Percy Jones. Which is more difficult?
[/quote] And which is more likely to inspire a young player to want to play ?

[Happy Jack]

Interesting range of opinions expressed, but I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that usually it's the instrument that chooses the player.

I've done no scientific research, but my feeling is that there are people who are just naturally guitarists, and people (like me) who are just naturally bass players.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Oh I forgot, it's a dad thing. Metal is terrible;)
What bands are emo? I'm out of touch myself .

[JTUK]

I would say if he hasn't got the requirement to get past his frustrations on gtr, bass will do the same
to him when he can't play *insert fave rad bass player of the day*..so he has a choice, get really stuck in
or give up. This is just natural selection.

P.S it would be a decent life lesson, if you pushed him to get past this... IMO. Nothing is for free etc etc

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1399880339' post='2448464']
And which is more likely to inspire a young player to want to play ?
[/quote]

TBH: I think that the Noel Gallagher guitar is more likely to inspire a young player to want to play. Big noisy chords versus technique they're less likely to appreciate.

[notable9]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1399878524' post='2448441']
Easy? I had a similar conversation with my Grandson a few weeks ago, so I gave him this to play along with using my short scale bass.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Z9-QCmZyw[/media]

He eventually did it all the way through admitting that he was exhausted at the end.

His other comment?

"Not easy Grandad. You can't stop. You've got to be spot-on and disciplined, haven't you?"

I smiled........
[/quote]

Lovely anecdote Jazz...Funny how you forget how few breaks the bass gets in many tunes..whilst all the other intruments except drums maybe will usually get a chance to stop now and again for a breather..