Looking at new PA speakers

[bassist_lewis]

Hello everyone, as the title suggests, my wedding band is wanting to upgrade. One of our Mackie's packed in on Thursday so had to do the gig one speakered and will have to do that tonight as well and it got us thinking.
I've been researching speakers and the most suited size and power wise seem to be alto TS112A and the Electro Voice ZLX12P, does anyone have any experience with these speakers or similar? Also, the EV is described as 'powered' rather than active, is this the same as active? As in could I just plug it into a desk and go?
Thanks

[Chrismanbass]

Hi Lewis

in short yes the EV is an active speaker i.e you plug it into the desk via an xlr lead and theres no need for a separate power amp
i've gigged with them before however i found that competing against a whole band they lacked a little if you can possibly afford it
then i'd suggest going up to ZLX15P as it just has that little bit extra headroom

chris

Edited May 24, 2014 by Chrismanbass

[bassist_lewis]

We were hoping to avoid 15s as our current pair are 15s and are a f@&£ing hassle to move around. They're the 400W mackie thump which we find are underpowered, I'd expect that both the EV and the Altos rated at 1000 and 800W respectively would be louder than what we've got, though I know watts aren't a perfect predictor of volume.

[cameltoe]

Mackie SRM450's are best bang for buck IMO.

We had a set of the Thumps for FOH before and like you say, they are very underpowered. We use them for foldback now.

SRM450's are a massive step up in quality and power. Second hand prices seem to be favourable. They kick quite well too, so if you don't use a Sub you can still get a bit of punch from them (something to do with Mackie's internal time correction technology- similar to a sonic enhancer if you ever used one).

We use the V2's and (fingers crossed) have not had any reliability issues in 3 years of constant gigging. I think they are rated are 400w but that's RMS- they are a very loud speaker. Always plenty on ebay if you want to save some money and Thomann and whybuynew.com always seem to have B stock items lying around with a substantial discount.

p.s- the 400w quoted by the Thump I think is peak power- they are 200w RMS IIRC. Same as the EV and Alto you mentioned- that will likely be peak figures and as you say, means very little.

Edited May 24, 2014 by cameltoe

[lurksalot]

We recently bought the EVs and I think they are brilliant , we rock out and they have filled some decent sized venues , at a friends party we did the other month we played his own ipod playlist through fairly cranked and they sounded superb .
We did an acoustic set at a fundraiser and the organisers did a quiz so we set them up through our PA and the voice souded so natural and clean sounding. All a bit sad , but as I normally stand at the back its not often I get to listen to them to thoroughly

[leftybassman392]

SRM450's are benchmark units at this level for a good reason.

Current models have Chinese drivers IIRC and are not as good as the originals with the RCF units, but still pretty damn good. They punch well above their weight too - better still if you're prepared to invest in a couple of their subs as well.

RCF also make some good kit that should be in your eyeline as well.

[JTUK]

Budget..???

We are replacing QSCKW112 x2 with Yamaha DXR10's plus a DSR112 sub...as the sub gives it that
seperation and score over the QSC's, IMO... but without the sub there is too much of a difference with the 10's
and a decent 112 ( which the KW's are ) which can handle a bit depth and a kick, for example.

EV EXP and ZLP are worth considering from a sound POV, but we want a sub in the equation at every gig
so we get to use the compact 10's... and EV don't do 10's..
RCF ART series are good, but we need a compact sub and EV don't do one that is light enough..

Mackie subs aren't good... IME and QC took a hit and I am not sure they have recovered.

You need to go to a shop and hear them all wound up...to hear where the compromises are..
Not sure about the no name things, like Box, Alto... I've not heard them sound good on other bands gigs...
I'd rather look at PV than those types of makes,
but then the vox never come over the top of the band..and I don't know whether that is by the bands design..which means they are
wrong...or the cabs just aren't capable. I suspect both reasons are pertinent.

Sound-wise, we've looked at QSC, EV, RCF and the Nexo Yamahas and none are shoddy, you just need to decide which ones you like better and the configs you wants and can live with...IMO.

Edited May 25, 2014 by JTUK

[bassist_lewis]

Thanks guys,
JTUK, I guess we're looking at £800 maximum. A sub isn't really an option at the moment - we've only 2 cars between 5 members and mine's a corsa. after a bit more research 15s are probably a better choice for the kick drum, though we will be listening to 12s and 15s before we buy.

[bonzodog]

We have the ZLX 12s and they sound amazing and are 300 quid each so well within your budget. We use them without subs for a vocal PA and easily play to 100 people plus

[cameltoe]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1401013876' post='2459032']

Mackie subs aren't good... IME and QC took a hit and I am not sure they have recovered.
[/quote]

Yes I've heard bad things about the newer Mackie subs, but the older stuff is good. we have an SWA1501 and it's fantastic for its size. Really kicks. Bit heavy though. Up for sale now and will be in the FS section soon once I get round to it.

[cameltoe]

Just to throw them in the mix, JBL Eon 515's are within your budget, no idea how well they perform but we have the Eon18" subs and they are good sounding units and light. No issues so far either.

DB technologies I have heard good things about in general and they do a 15" Active from their Opera series, under £400 each too.

[bassist_lewis]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1401033552' post='2459351']
We have the ZLX 12s and they sound amazing and are 300 quid each so well within your budget. We use them without subs for a vocal PA and easily play to 100 people plus
[/quote]

Is that with a full band? Typically we have keys, kick and 4 vocals going through our PA, do reckon it could put those out at a decent volume?

[bonzodog]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1401047733' post='2459555']


Is that with a full band? Typically we have keys, kick and 4 vocals going through our PA, do reckon it could put those out at a decent volume?
[/quote]

We are a 3 piece. Guitar bass and very loud drummer. It will easily do what you want. We used them last week at a big pub and left the master volume on zero.

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1401047733' post='2459555']
Is that with a full band? Typically we have keys, kick and 4 vocals going through our PA, do reckon it could put those out at a decent volume?
[/quote]

No.... you will struggle. The better QSC's will just about do that but then they are a better cab but as soon as the room opens up
they will run out of steam. If outside, forget it.
You will need to think about a tight sub just to take the strain of the low end..and then you'll likely to be able to push the tops harder.
Most tops are bass light...they have to be to handle the volume...but if you can add a sub you'll get so much more out of the tops and you'll also need to run a decent backline.

Edited May 25, 2014 by JTUK

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1401055675' post='2459684']

You will need to think about a tight sub just to take the strain of the low end..and then you'll likely to be able to push the tops harder.
Most tops are bass light...they have to be to handle the volume...but if you can add a sub you'll get so much more out of the tops and you'll also need to run a decent backline.
[/quote]

Pretty much my thinking...

[tauzero]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1401010671' post='2458968']
SRM450's are benchmark units at this level for a good reason.

Current models have Chinese drivers IIRC and are not as good as the originals with the RCF units, but still pretty damn good. They punch well above their weight too - better still if you're prepared to invest in a couple of their subs as well.
[/quote]

I've got a pair of SRM 450 V2s and am thinking of subs which need to be small and light and inexpensive (because it's me who'll have to buy, store, and transport them) - does anyone know if the Alto 12" subs are worth going for?

[JTUK]

Not sure but my feeling and experience is that a sub is not just about taking lows
and you can quite easiliy hear where the money goes.
We tried some Mackie subs which were pretty crap sounding but then they were cheap.
The argument tends to be that you need a heavy hitting 15 at least and preferably 18's but they
will be big and heavy.
We currently use RCF 905's and choose them over QSC subs but they are big units.
One of the reasons we are thinking Yamaha is that the DSR12 is compact but not too light at
around 73 lbs. We saw/heard the value of subs just by running an Elements system and they
have light 12's... For sure, not a benchmark system but we liked the seperation even then.

I'd be interested to hear if the Alto's cut it, but when running 'cheap' maybe match the subs with the
tops...as that should give them the best chance of sounding ok and matched.

We will default to 1 DSR12 sub and add another for a bigger gig but we have to be realistic
to recognise where it will run out of steam and oomph.

We certainly can't and don't expect to have a system that can do all our gigs so will still hire in
when necessary.

[spinynorman]

We're using an Alto TS112A as a vocal monitor. It replaced an SRM350 and it's definitely a step up from that, but I don't know how it would compare to an SRM450.

We played last night using another band's PA, which used SRM450s. We only put vocals through them, sounded good to me, but someone else said it was a bit muddy at the back. The other band were running vocals, drums, keyboard and guitar through them, not sure about bass because I left before they played. They didn't have subs and the bass player had a big trace elliot combo, so I guess he was just using that.

[martthebass]

My band is in the same place as you are. We were also looking at a budget of about £800 for active 12 tops with a view to add a sub as soon as band funds allowed. We ruled out the Mackie 450V2 s because of the reliability/bad press and the high used price on the earlier Italian made units which left us with RCF 312A or EV ZLX12p. Tried the EVs , very muddy sounding in comparison to our current passive set up (Peavey Hysis 1XT) and the RCF just didn't seem to have enough umph and ran out of steam too early even in our Trio unit with only vox thru the PA. The advisor at Electro Music pretty much said that unless we were going to go for t least Yamaha DSR12 or QSC K12 then we would end up worse off than our current Peavey CS800X/Hysis set up. In the end we concurred and have decided to stay passive but downsize to a lighter amp (running 450W stereo into 8 Ohm) and HK Pro 12 tops.