When does a classic become a classic?

[BetaFunk]

I think this interview with Pat Metheny is really interesting. This is obviously not unique to the Bright Size Life LP but is often the story of numerous albums. Many of what we think of as 'classics' now weren't viewed that way on their release.
I actually remember when BSL was released and some of the reviews it got. Metheny was stuck in the middle of 'real jazz' and 'fusion' and hid didn't fit easily into either camp. Most reviews i read at the time just thought it was 'nice' at best. That's all. No great fanfare for Jaco either (that came later). The album now has become a classic.
http://youtu.be/rzgY6udpsRg

[RhysP]

When you write it in an attic?

[seashell]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1401127931' post='2460380']
When you write it in an attic?
[/quote]

Lol!

[Dingus]

For me the most pertinent question is what the bleedin' hell is going on with Pat Metheney's hair? It's like his hairdresser has been playing a joke on him for the last forty years and no one dare tell him.

Big Hair Metal has come and gone ( and come back again), but Big Hair Jazz ? Was the world ever ready for that?

Edited May 26, 2014 by Dingus

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1401127931' post='2460380']
When you write it in an attic?
[/quote]


I think Metheny hints at the answer for this particular album - he, and Jaco, became much more popular later on so audiences and critics start looking back and treating otherwise overlooked work with more respect.

What I find more fascinating is how much bigger recordings - Hotel California for example become so huge and take on a whole new dimension where nearly everyone on the planet knows it, compared to the actual number of copies it ever sold. To me, that is what I would consider to be a classic, even if I don't actually like it that much!

[iconic]

When Tony Blackburrn plays them on a Saturday's Radio 2?

[sykilz]

I think for rock/pop the amount of radio play for an extended period of time is a major factor, lots of people never purchased much music so what they heard on radio 1 or 2 day after day eventually became classics because of repeated hearing. I am frequently shocked when I hear on pop quizzes that old Mowtown stuff that I only know through radio play only charted in the high top 20 or whereever and I sort of assumed it had been number one for weeks at the time. Of course this maybe doesn't hold true for jazz or metal or indie stuff that gets little radio play. So then it's down to word of mouth and music press bigging up certain acts perhaps.? In our new digital age, of course, these factors may well become less and less if radio and music journalism go into decline.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='sykilz' timestamp='1401265221' post='2461708']
I think for rock/pop the amount of radio play for an extended period of time is a major factor, lots of people never purchased much music so what they heard on radio 1 or 2 day after day eventually became classics because of repeated hearing.
[/quote]

There used to be a name for that phenomenon: 'A turntable hit'.

God knows what they'd call it these days. A multi-friended torrent link or somesuch.

[sykilz]

^. indeed, I do worry about things like this. I can only look from a hard rock perspective, as that's my area of interest, but has there been a true " classic " since , oh I don't know.....Nirvanas Teen Spirit?? Saw a documentary recently with Tom Petty and he said that he thought that Nirvana were probably the last rock stars, by that he meant massive household name across the world type rock stars. Now I wanted to disagree, but really struggled, the only one I could come up with was Dave Grohl, who was obviously in Nirvana anyway. Though there is plenty of very good rock and hard rock around nowadays, are any going to be real classics? I really hope so.

[Diablo]

Kings of Leon kind of made it a few years ago but seem to have vanished. Struggling to think of many more rock bands making it "in their time" so to speak.

Cars and motorcycles are the same. How many 70's nasty, horrible handing rot-boxes with no power or brakes are now drooled over by middle-aged born-agains? Suzuki Kettles, Kawasaki triples, Honda CB's, Ford Escort Mk 3's, all truly horrible devices which were thrown in canals to get rid of in their time, now worth thousands it not tens of thousands of pounds. Very few are classics in their era though. What do we have now? Not a lot springs to mind.

With basses the same applies - who lusts after a 2013 Fender std American over a 1960's original? Well I'd bet in 2050 Fener are churning out (from a factory on the moon) "Custom Shop 2013 Relic P Bass" at 3x the price of the standard model. As bas that in its time was good, but through the passage of time and survival becomes a dream bass. Funny old world. I've got motorbikes that 30 years ago people threw away. They are now my pension pot and going up all the time.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1401314829' post='2462483']
Cars and motorcycles are the same. How many 70's nasty, horrible handing rot-boxes with no power or brakes are now drooled over by middle-aged born-agains? Suzuki Kettles, Kawasaki triples, Honda CB's, Ford Escort Mk 3's, all truly horrible devices which were thrown in canals to get rid of in their time, now worth thousands it not tens of thousands of pounds. Very few are classics in their era though. What do we have now? Not a lot springs to mind.
[/quote]
Funny you should mention that. I had a Mk2 Escort RS2000 in the late 90s. Highly desirable now but awful to drive in traffic when compared to modern cars. No way would i want to drive that thing to work every day. I spoke to the proud owner of a Kawasaki H2C 750 Triple at a motorcycle show recently and he nearly cried when i told him that i had one brand new in the 70s and although it was fun it handled like a pig and the brakes were less than useless and it did about 15 miles to the gallon if you were lucky. The difference also is that no one rides the crap out of a classic bike and doesn't use it like it would have been used when new. Perhaps we look back at those classic albums in a similar way.

Edited May 28, 2014 by BetaFunk

[Diablo]

[quote]Perhaps we look back at those classic albums in a similar way. [/quote]

Exactly my point - you view stuff at the time as consumable, usable things in life. When you go back 20 years later to experience something, be it recorded or even live music, cars, basses, Royal Dalton etc all of a sudden it has a completely different value and reason to you than it would have had when new.

[sykilz]

Perhaps we have to wait 20 years until the music of the day is soooo crap that we'll look back to stuff we find 'average' today and it'll look, in comparison, like works of genius!

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Difficult question.
My answer ; when it makes the band megastars
(Master of puppets/ morning glory/harvest /dark side of the moon etc.)
Also, when they attract mainstream attention, and not just specialist.
Also , when you can still play the album20 years latet...