Humbuckers vs single coil?

[Angel]

[size=4]Showing my 'bass' ignorance here![/size]

In bass terms, Humbuckers vs single coil: what's the difference? Why would you pick one over the other? With guitars I've generally thought of them in terms of HBs for gain/distortion etc and SCs for clean, but the same thing doesn't really apply to bass.

Also, it always seems a bit strange to me that on many basses there is a bridge HB, and then another HB right next to it. Why not have the second one up near the neck? Do they actually sound that different when so close to each other?

[discreet]

Time to show my ignorance, too - I was under the impression that as single coils are prone to unwanted noise, a humbucker will solve this problem... you do get extra beans as well, but I don't think overdrive or distortion is the main purpose.

Edited May 30, 2014 by discreet

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1401445065' post='2463637']
Time to show my ignorance, too - I was under the impression that as single coils are prone to unwanted noise, a humbucker will solve this problem... you do get extra beans as well, but I don't think overdrive or distortion is the main purpose.
[/quote]
Correct on both counts. A single coil pickup is vulnerable to radio frequency interference (RFI), and mains hum from nearby equipment. A humbucker has two coils joined in series (usually) or parallel (sometimes available as a switchable option e.g. on G&L L-series), with the magnetic polarity and coil-winding direction reversed - this has the effect of adding together the signal from the strings, but cancelling out incoming noise. The output is higher (in series mode), but there is usually some treble loss compared to a single coil.

Many people do not realise that the P pickup is also a kind of humbucker, where each coil senses 2 strings rather than all 4.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Angel' timestamp='1401444686' post='2463631']
Also, it always seems a bit strange to me that on many basses there is a bridge HB, and then another HB right next to it. Why not have the second one up near the neck? Do they actually sound that different when so close to each other?
[/quote]

Yes they sound very different. Some basses do have the other HB up by the neck, e.g.



but not everyone likes such a bassy sound, even on a bass guitar!

[brensabre79]

Aside from the noise cancelling properties of a humbucker, they tend to produce a much thicker (some say muddier) tone.
For those who like a lot of treble (pickers, slappers etc.) single coil pickups provide a better attack that can punch through the sound of a full band.

Re: pickup position, theres actually a huge variety of tone between the pickups even close together and I think it is more noticable on a bass - due to being an octave down, the harmonics extend way out of hearing range on both so you have another octave of audible harmonic content.

Comparing a Jazz bass to a Stratocaster guitar for example you have the bridge and mid pickups. the pickup on the end of the neck is missing because for most people it's quite muddy with little to offer in the top end. The result is that whilst you get a lovely deep rich sound solo'ed, in a band setting it turns into an indiscernable mush - i.e. you can't tell what note is being played very easily. Great for certain types of music, but on the whole, more mid is required.

Now, I quite like the tone of a neck pickup with lots of mid and treble EQ'd in (think Rickenbacker), but unless you play with a pick it easily becomes quite undefined and as a result it's usual to blend in a bit of the bridge pickup to get that attack. The same can be said for my current main bass, the Lakland Decade. I find myself EQ'ing in a lot more mid than I would for a Jazz bass which I can pretty much run flat through my amp of choice. Although I can get a sound that my Jazz/Precision cannot come close to.

And there it is really. The Jazz bass configuration (bridge and Mid pickup position) is so very popular because it's the simplest set up (I.E plug in and play) and instantly gives a variety of useable tones. the Precision bass configuration is essentially just the mid pickup, and again, just plug it in and away you go. Lots of bass frequencies, with just the right amount of mid and treble to cut through the mix Thats' why the 'Fender Bass' sound is on so very many records (even if it wasn't an actual Fender) - it just works in the mix.

[White Cloud]

This is an extremely interesting post.

[Greggo]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1401457266' post='2463835']
This is an extremely interesting post.
[/quote]

+1.
Its interesting the way pickups sound when put together as well. On my P/J equipped bass I dont find the J pickup very desirable or useful on its own, but in conjunction with the P it is my pickup selection of choice for pretty much most things that I record.

[discreet]

[quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1401459429' post='2463853']
On my P/J equipped bass I don't find the J pickup very desirable or useful on its own, but in conjunction with the P it is my pickup selection of choice for pretty much most things that I record.
[/quote]

I can totally understand that. I was completely happy with the sound and simplicity of a single split-P pickup for decades, but as soon as I acquired a Hayman (with dual split P-type pickups), I became addicted to the blended sound of two pickups... which then led to me experimenting with Jazz basses... and meddling with forces I do not understand. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaahhh!!

[IanA]

I find hum buckers are more mid focused than single coils which I perceive to be a little more even sounding.
There are noise issues with some single coils, however some manufacturers go with a split coil design such as the Nordstrand nj/sv range.
Pj basses IMHO seem to offer hum bucker punch with single coil definition, defo a nice combination, and best of both worlds especially where a nice fat finger style tone is required

[drTStingray]

Some interesting posts in this thread, which seem to be almost entirely Fender orientated.

Probably the most famous humbuckers on basses are the Gibson (sometimes called mud bucker owing to bridge position - I don't know whether this is justified or not having no experience of them - two of the great players of all time used them.....) and Musicman, originally Leo Fender's company (starting with the Stingray in 1976).

The humbucker(s) on 4 string Stingrays are wired in parallel and combined with the active pre amp create a crystal clear, and probably one of the best slap sounds, similar for pick style and a low mid heavy finger style bass sound. They totally sink any preconception that humbuckers create a muddy sound. The neck H on 2 pick up versions of these basses fattens up the bass response and with the coil selection provided enables the pick ups to be selected in single coil mode. Musicman's revered reputation in the bass world is built around humbuckers (SR5, Sterling, Bongo). More recently they have perfected a noiseless single coil which is offered on most models at neck position (and in a 3 single coil Strat style on the big al).

So when you say single coil I think of Fender, humbucker as Musicman (with due deference to all the other bass makes not mentioned here such as Rickenbacker, hofner, G and L, Lakland etc etc etc all of which have as much if not more validity dependent on your outlook). The humbucker tends to be more powerful and fatter sounding in most applications.

Edited May 31, 2014 by drTStingray

[HowieBass]

Something that's not often mentioned, but I believe is relevant here is the pickup aperture, or how much of the vibrating string that it sees; it's for this reason that single coils (with a narrow aperture) sound the way they do, clearly defined; whereas with wider aperture pickups, normally the situation with humbuckers, there's a wider mix of frequencies, giving the characteristic warmer or fuller tone. I don't know how they do it, but my Squier Jazz has no noise when either pickup is soloed, I have to assume it's a Fender noiseless 'single coil' design.

[jazzyvee]

There is another option to humbucker and single coils. I have hum-cancelling pickups which have two pickup coils where only one of the coils is wound around a magnetic core. The other has no magnet so only picks up the environmental noise and not the movement of the strings. This empty coil being reverse wound cancels out any induced noise but does not affect the frequency response that you would expect from a single coil pickup.

jazzyvee

[geoffbyrne]

Interestingly, some pickups that look like J pickups (Think diMarzio Model J and others) are actually built internally like a P pickup and can be wired both in series and in parallel. You can do this with a P pup too given a micro switch - a 3 position could give series/off/parallel.

I found that the DiMarzio Model J wired both ways via a switch worked very well in series in a P/J combination, yet when switched from series to parallel gave a completely different set of tones.

G.

[JTUK]

Singles have the better chance of character in the sound whilst the thicker humbuckers are fuller and louder which is not always what you want, IMO.
It tends to be the same re active and passive. The extra oomph can often be required and appreciated but in an ideal world the best chance of the better tone lies with the thinner sound of singles and when you get to a gig where you need to make the very least amount of compromises you go passive and single for this reason. IMO.

[uncle psychosis]

On guitar I prefer single coils, but for bass I appear to be a humbucker man!

[drTStingray]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1401553992' post='2464709']
Singles have the better chance of character in the sound whilst the thicker humbuckers are fuller and louder which is not always what you want, IMO.
It tends to be the same re active and passive. The extra oomph can often be required and appreciated but in an ideal world the best chance of the better tone lies with the thinner sound of singles and when you get to a gig where you need to make the very least amount of compromises you go passive and single for this reason. IMO.
[/quote]

I see where you're coming from but the idea that humbuckers can only be brash and loud is a huge over-simplification. Take a Gibson Les Paul - it doesn't have to always be Paul Kossof or jimmy page style sound - how about Les Paul himself - very smooth and jazzy sounding. It's the same with bass - it doesn't have to be Flea sound with a humbucker.

Similarly with active/passive.

I used my bongo at a gig last night (twin H) - yes very powerful if required but quite tameable with playing technique - and for those jazz songs simply dialled in a higher level of piezzo/lower level of magnetic. Piezzo is well worth having.

Whilst bass guitar tone can obviously be heard in a band format by the audience, the level and nuance is far less than, say a lead guitar. It's more an issue of what level is heard rather than the nuances of tone (far more than us bass players would like to think it is!!). Bass guitar is fairly inaudible (in comparison with 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s) in many modern music mixes.

Edited June 1, 2014 by drTStingray

[Mornats]

This thread should be the wikipedia entry on bass pickup configurations.

My two main basses at the moment are my Yamaha TRBX504 and my Bass Collection SB320.

The Yammy has two humbuckers and has a lot of power, particularly on the bridge pickup which on a lot of basses is usually the quieter of the two due to the strings vibrating less at this part of the bass. They do lose a bit of top end - the zing, the upper mid growl as I like to describe it. It sounds more clinical and modern and electric.

The SB320 has a P/J config and has that lovely zing from the split coil / single coil pickups. I do tend to favour the pickups in the middle pan position. There's a nice blend of that honky jazz bridge pickup growl mixed in with the traditional P sound. Also I do believe a centred pan scoops the mids a little due to phase cancellation (do correct me if I'm wrong).

My Dean has a musicman style humbucker in the MM position that gives off a sound like a jazz bass played on the bridge pickup but with a little more bottom end presence. Sounds nice and funky/jazzy but always has a slight back-of-the-throat growl that for me rules it out for mellower stuff (I have other basses that do the mellower stuff much better so it's not so much the fact that the Dean can't do this, it's just I have others that work better).

[Dingus]

Single coils seem to have a naturally extended treble response which gives a sense of detail and nuance to the overall tone of the bass. However, on some designs of single coil introducing hum-cancelling features can reduce that sense of airiness and "presence" and compromise the overall tone. Also, quite a few single coil pickups are overwound nowadays to beef them up a bit and make them louder , but the more wire you put on a pickup the more you decrease the upper frequency response, so it is a compromise between output and bandwidth in that respect. .

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1401612387' post='2465130']
On guitar I prefer single coils, but for bass I appear to be a humbucker man!
[/quote]
Me too. My LP has HBs, the other 5 (I know, but I can provide full justification and a note from my mum) all have singles.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1401643531' post='2465487']
Single coils seem to have a naturally extended treble response which gives a sense of detail and nuance to the overall tone of the bass. However, on some designs of single coil introducing hum-cancelling features can reduce that sense of airiness and "presence" and compromise the overall tone. Also, quite a few single coil pickups are overwound nowadays to beef them up a bit and make them louder , but the more wire you put on a pickup the more you decrease the upper frequency response[b], [/b]so it is a compromise between output and bandwidth in that respect. .
[/quote]

Which is why I say you go for passive and single when you don't need to compromise on your power unit.
A lot of people's rigs are chosen with other powerful factors to the fore..like weight in the carry, load-in, expense etc etc
when ideally, they should be non-factors.
We know they aren't for most of us, but from purely a sound POV, they should be. IMO.

[Telebass]

I like simplicity. I have three basses. Two are bog standard Precisions, that being the basic tone I like. They're humbucking, so no noise issues.
The other is the re-aquired mkII Telecaster bass with the BIG humbucker. That will be used for quiet, mellow tones, with an acoustic trio.
My next bitsa will be, if I can get the body made, a Precision with routings for standard Jazz pickups. One of the things I dislike about the Jazz is the shape. But the pickups work well.
So single coils are good. And for many years I played single coil Precisions/Telecaster basses. Lovely sound!
Basically: what sounds good to you?

Edited June 3, 2014 by Telebass

[ead]

Very interesting thread. Spent last night googling pics of 2 x humbucker basses and it's amazing how many different position combos are out there. There seem to be much less variety in the 2 x single coil basses that I presume is down to a lot of Jazz-a-like basses.

[neepheid]

Humbuckers for me, because they're on all my favourite basses

[JTUK]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1401885311' post='2467816']
Very interesting thread. Spent last night googling pics of 2 x humbucker basses and it's amazing how many different position combos are out there. There seem to be much less variety in the 2 x single coil basses that I presume is down to a lot of Jazz-a-like basses.
[/quote]

If you have spent eons of your sound and technique, then you don't tend to value the fact that the bass has
loads of sounds... you've been through all that ....and you get most of what you you do with just a few and this
also defines your style and playing.

The jazz pretty much is a full twin pickup sound ( and there are variations of this, of course ) or a bridge pickup
and if you if want a P.Bass sound, then only a P.bass will do.... so none of this front pickup only on a jazz...

[iiipopes]

For studio work, I use either/or/all, depending on what the song needs and the preferred bass tone for the track. For stage. I use humbucking pickups to get as noise-free signal as possible. To my ears, very few aspects are worse than constant hum or buzz in the sound system, especially if I may be the person causing it.

Edited June 4, 2014 by iiipopes