GrahamT Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Our guitarist is a cautious man - he has asked me if I thought that we should be paying songwriter fees for the songs that we cover at pub and festival gigs and I have no ready answer. Do you guys pay fees to PRS or similar for the songs that you cover at paying gigs? Opinions please.... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I thought the venue paid the PRS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The venue pays PRS - You should submit a setlist though to make sure PRS pays the artist(s) and doesn't keep it all for 'administration purposes'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) [b][font=Verdana][size=2][font=Verdana][size=2].[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b] Edited June 6, 2014 by chaypup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) OK, can't resist sharing this one: here in Norway, you have to pay our PRS if you own a shop with a radio that is switched on while customers are present, and the amount you have to pay is calculated from the shop's customer area in square meters. As I sell sea kayaks for a living, I could theoretically be found anywhere in Norway, so when filling out the form, I disregarded the water area, and faithfully answered: "385,178,000,000". Never heard from them again. Edited June 6, 2014 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 We had a guy approach us in a band I was a part of about 5 years ago before a gig. He made out he was official, and wanted to know exactly what we played, to see the level of which songs were being played most, so artists could benefit from royalties! I was extremely cautious - though he was from the Inland Revenue or something! I never did find out if he was genuine, or if it had ever happened elsewhere - I'd actually forgotten about it until now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Our drummer posed the same question a few weeks ago. She thought we needed a PRS licence ,as when she was looking for venues for her wedding, one place told her a live band would need a licence. Clearly the venue wasn't licenced so even a disco would have problems. Venue should be licenced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yep, if it's the real deal you'll be asked to fill out a form which includes your set list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Sounds like too much hard work...seemingly turning into an admin task! I dare say there are countless bands not doing this and avoiding tax at the same time. I am not one of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1402048307' post='2469472'] We had a guy approach us in a band I was a part of about 5 years ago before a gig. He made out he was official, and wanted to know exactly what we played, to see the level of which songs were being played most, so artists could benefit from royalties! I was extremely cautious - though he was from the Inland Revenue or something! I never did find out if he was genuine, or if it had ever happened elsewhere - I'd actually forgotten about it until now! [/quote] If somebody claims to be from a public service then challenge them for ID and confirm their status and department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 As said - it's the venues that need the PRS license not the performers, they should also be asking you for a set-list. If you're playing to large numbers of people & doing your own songs too it might be worth joining the PRS though - you might get 10p in about a year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 As other have said if you are playing covers, it's the venue/festival's responsibility to pay the appropriate PRS fees. The sum is £6 a gig divided up between all the songs performed live that evening which for your average covers band playing say 2 sets of 12 songs each works out at 25p a song. Of course this is then divided up between all the writers and publishers of the song so ends up being not very much for each individual with an interest. [quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1402053712' post='2469545'] If you're playing to large numbers of people & doing your own songs too it might be worth joining the PRS though - you might get 10p in about a year... [/quote] Actually if you are playing your own material, and doing a decent number of gigs then it's well worth joining the PRS. Most bands even if they are PRS members don't bother submitting a set list, so if you can put in the effort, a lot of the time your band will see all of that £6.00) In the case of the Terrortones, last year's performance royalties paid for this year's studio time for our new EP. That's somewhat more than 10p! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 PRS sounds like a massive con to me. I just don't understand how they know what song/artist has been played to be able to determine where the money goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'll ditto BigRedX's comment above. Join PRS and MCPS too if you are selling your EP (as funded by PRS or otherwise). Indeed the venue are expected to pay PRS licence fee, there are different levels of licence though, hence some venues will only allow a DJ or a duo but not a full band. Any commercial premises that plays music has to be licenced to do so, whether an entire orchestra or a Roberts radio is the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It is for this reason that my band never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever play covers....honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1402055191' post='2469559'] PRS sounds like a massive con to me. I just don't understand how they know what song/artist has been played to be able to determine where the money goes. [/quote] They do employ people to go around and take random samples actually. Also many corporate chains (e.g Starbucks) will tend to have their music piped in from a central source, or buy in particular compilations to be played in every branch (or commission them). This makes the tracking of royalties much easier, and it's the larger chains that will tend to be targeted by collection agencies (PRS being just one of many). The little cafe in the village is unlikely to keep tabs on what they play, so as mentioned above it tends to go into the admin pot unless someone claims it. I've had tracked royalties from all over the place, from cafe chains to airlines. I don't make mega bucks, but it all adds up. A good friend of mine [u]does[/u] make a living from this as it's his full time job. He once bought a yacht with his MCPS, PPL and PRS collections from one year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 These days with ISRCs etc. most plays of recorded music can be logged automatically, so getting an accurate picture of what has been played in broadcast particularly is simple. Live performance to a certain extent relies on bands like mine submitting set lists and PRS employees doing samples at various venues for bands playing covers. There is a certain amount of extrapolation done at "cheaper" end of the PRS licence fee market, but overall the picture of what is being played is pretty accurate and becoming more so all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1402048082' post='2469468'] [b][font=Verdana][size=2].[/size][/font][/b] [/quote] nice dot!....any more thoughts? Edited June 6, 2014 by Bassnut62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1402055609' post='2469568'] They do employ people to go around and take random samples actually. Also many corporate chains (e.g Starbucks) will tend to have their music piped in from a central source, or buy in particular compilations to be played in every branch (or commission them). This makes the tracking of royalties much easier, and it's the larger chains that will tend to be targeted by collection agencies (PRS being just one of many). The little cafe in the village is unlikely to keep tabs on what they play, so as mentioned above it tends to go into the admin pot unless someone claims it. I've had tracked royalties from all over the place, from cafe chains to airlines. I don't make mega bucks, but it all adds up. A good friend of mine [u]does[/u] make a living from this as it's his full time job. He once bought a yacht with his MCPS, PPL and PRS collections from one year! [/quote] Well i'll be damned! I guess the playlist thing makes a lot of sense. So if i were to be approached say, I would point them in the direction of the landlord or manager of the venue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1402056579' post='2469582'] Well i'll be damned! I guess the playlist thing makes a lot of sense. So if i were to be approached say, I would point them in the direction of the landlord or manager of the venue? [/quote] indeed sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1402056579' post='2469582'] Well i'll be damned! I guess the playlist thing makes a lot of sense. So if i were to be approached say, I would point them in the direction of the landlord or manager of the venue? [/quote] you still need to provide a set list but yes its the Landlords responsibility to make sure he has all the proper licences ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 If however you busk then you're responsible for the PRS. Likewise if you sell homemade CDs whilst you're busking you're responsible for getting the clearances. Other than that PRS isn't a problem, just hand in a set list to the venue. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shybaldbuddhist Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I used to work for a research company who collected the data for PRS. I was paid to go to pubs and clubs and write down every song that was played in a set period of time, PRS would then use that data to estimate how frequently songs were played and how much to pay out in royalties. It was a mind numbing job made worse by drunk people coming up to me every five minutes asking what I was doing. I now know the names of a LOT of terrible dance songs though. Swings and roundabouts! I only did one pub where they had a live band playing, I just asked to have a look at their set list and left early! It's not the responsibility of the performers, the venues need the licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='shybaldbuddhist' timestamp='1402079827' post='2469925'] It's not the responsibility of the performers, the venues need the licence. [/quote] I thought that had changed recently and pubs no longer needed a license to put on live acts if the capacity was under 250 people? or is that a different license? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 [quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1402084152' post='2469987'] I thought that had changed recently and pubs no longer needed a license to put on live acts if the capacity was under 250 people? or is that a different license? [/quote] I think that was to do with Entertainments Licencing from local authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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