ZMech Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I'm having a major issue with my fretting technique at the moment and am hoping someone can point out where I'm going wrong. I've tried to draw the forces in the attached picture, but at the moment when pressing the string down against the fretboard I don't know how to prevent the bass from pivoting round where it connects with my hip (yellow line and arrow) other than pressing against the back of the neck with my thumb (white arrow pointing with my finger). This causes a large amount of strain in my thumb which gets painful pretty quickly. Could someone please explain how else to apply the opposing torque as I can't work it out. A few places online say something along the lines of 'press the bass in to your body' but these words without any imagery don't make much sense. [attachment=164635:Fretting problem.JPG] (click to enlarge) Edited June 8, 2014 by ZMech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I think I remember this being good for that problem. Hope I've got the right one. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiJCOWAhE9Y[/media] Edited June 8, 2014 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Cheers for the video fatback. So the suggestion is the lean the bass forwards so that its own weight creates the necessary force? Shall have to have an experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The whole of that series is worth watching in sequence. The first one goes into how to hold the bass. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 [quote name='ZMech' timestamp='1402264973' post='2471583'] Cheers for the video fatback. So the suggestion is the lean the bass forwards so that its own weight creates the necessary force? Shall have to have an experiment. [/quote] I find the height of the bass matters too. There's one setting that nestles the bout neatly against my hip and allows it to be trapped with the left foot. And it'll stand there for seconds unsupported if I take my hand off. Basses and people vary so much in shape and size, it does seem to take time to find the right positions. Took me ages, and I'm still not comfortable arco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah thomas Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I put my left knee behind the widest part of the lower C bout. The upper bout nestles just in front of my left hip bone. The bass takes its own weight and I just supply balance. I had a lesson with Jake Newman from this forum and he showed me how to do this. Once you've got it, you can take your hands away and the bass will stay upright. Move your knee and it falls forwards. There are some photos in Rufus Reid's 'The Evolving Bassist' which show him supporting his bass in this way. Theoretically you should be able to play notes without using your thumb at all. I'm still working on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Sarah is right you should be able to make good stops without your thumb in contact, (it's only to understand the concept of applying weight though and NOT a way to play) Balancing the instrument is vital here. I start all my lessons with posture and having the bass supported so that the left hand is free to move. In an ideal world you would have a few lessons where someone would show you just how to do that. Edited June 11, 2014 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Diaz Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 IME, the only way to completely free your thumb is playing seated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Jake/Sarah I've been experimenting with my posture a bit this evening (2 hours and counting) and can't seem to get the hang of what you're talking about. I can't seem to get my left knee onto the back of the bass without putting lots of weight on my right leg, or turning the bass in to face me lots. At no stage have I felt comfortable. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 When you see everyone say "have a few lessons to get you started" it is easy to think how hard can it be?, those rockabillys spin them around and everything! As soon as you actually try and stand with one it all becomes clear that the only way is to have someone physically show you, even the good youtube clips are tricky to grasp imo. Btw Jake im ready for another next time you are up this way, ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah thomas Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 There is much wisdom on button moon, and there is nothing like someone showing you how to balance the bass. Anyway, here's what Rufus Reid says: 'The bass is leaning slightly into the body with the inside of the left knee against the bass back acting as one of the balancing points. The other balancing point is angled against the lower abdomen where it joins the leg.' Good luck Hector! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I know the position of placing the bass against your left knee and hip but I tend to move my body too much when I'm playing to do that, so I rely on my hip and partially the thumb of my plucking hand to steady the bass*. I'll concede that If I bowed at all I would be completely stuffed because the bass would no longer be stable enough, so clearly I would need to improve my technique a lot if I ever played anything especially challenging, but it is at least comfortable to do what I do for a few hours and my wrists and back (despite having thin wrists with inflammation-prone tendons and generally rubbish posture) cope just fine. The business of couching it inside your hip bone is the key IMHO. I also read when I was starting out that you should stand the bass upright, then step away to the side until it's at arms length, then lean the bass in to your body. If you then rest it inside your hip bone then I think that's pretty good advice for a beginner unless you've got heinously long arms. * The explanation I heard about making the left knee position comfortable is to balance your weight between both feet almost like you're in the middle of thrusting with a fencing foil. Not that I've done any fencing, DIY or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1402517752' post='2474406'] When you see everyone say "have a few lessons to get you started" it is easy to think how hard can it be?, those rockabillys spin them around and everything! As soon as you actually try and stand with one it all becomes clear that the only way is to have someone physically show you, even the good youtube clips are tricky to grasp imo. Btw Jake im ready for another next time you are up this way, ta [/quote] Will be in touch Pete... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Good good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 [quote name='Hector' timestamp='1402513498' post='2474350'] Jake/Sarah I've been experimenting with my posture a bit this evening (2 hours and counting) and can't seem to get the hang of what you're talking about. I can't seem to get my left knee onto the back of the bass without putting lots of weight on my right leg, or turning the bass in to face me lots. At no stage have I felt comfortable. Am I missing something? [/quote] It does seem to me that one result of the hip support and left leg approach is to turn the bass side on. I imagine not everyone likes that, esp. for arco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 pah it's almost impossible to describe... you stand legs slightly apart, the bass doesn't really need to be turned in, but imagine placing it so that if you let go it would fall forward and pivot towards your body, if you can get in that position then you can prevent the forward/pivoting motion of the bass by placing your left knee in the way of where the lower bout would move in the motion described (which is backwards and outwards from your leg) I play Arco standing all the time with the bass in this position. The thing is that really it's a moveable position, standing stock still is not good, so it's quite a fluid thing, but once you understand the principal of supporting the bass in this way it isn't long before you can move in a variety of ways (eg to reach thumb position) and still have a free LH Honestly it needs a conversation because it would take me hours to describe the exact position, the fluidity, the range of positions for moving to play in the various ways that we do, 1/2 ps, 5th pos thumb pos etc etc pizz, arco pizz whilst holding the bow, the list goes on. I hope this is helpful, I'm frustrated by the medium!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSeas Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 It's extremely difficult to describe how to stand; (despite it seems such an easy thing once you have 'mastered' it. The number one rule is you should not be supporting the bass with your left hand at all. You should be able to put your hands above your head and the bass should stay in place. I have met a few players who seem to think it should just balance for x-amount of seconds however you can stand with the bass and it will be completely balanced. Two problems I had which fixed it 1. Your posture should be completely 'upright' (when you're in neutral) you shouldn't be extremely bending over the bass or towards the ground your head should be (straight/normal) not tilted. 2. I personally finding have the bass a bit higher has helped with balancing the bass, (I'm unsure why this is, I suppose you're more towards the centre of the bass) before I use to have it 'eye level' current teacher suggestions forehead level which works very well. 3. I find you're balancing the bass with the left leg but I find it's only a slight bend of the knee (hardly at all) therefore you shouldn't feel like your legs being crushed. Impossible to explain, these are just methods that have worked for me. I have spent a while looking at different ways to standing with the bass and before I had been doing loads of practice but getting pain in my left arm. (from squeezing to hard with the left hand) after I reviewed this it was because I was holding the bass (up) in my left arm/hand. (when you shouldn't be holding the bass with your arm at all) it should be from your legs. Of course this is just my opinion, I'll post a picture if people want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Cheers all! Sounds like my interpretation is along the right lines, but I shall definitely book in a session with my teacher when they're back from holiday to ask about this specifically. Have tried modifying the way I stand already based on this advice and that youtube video which has made it a hell of a lot easier on my hand, but there's still a little bit of thumb squeezing left which hopefully a proper lesson will correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 TBH if I had your London/Bristol location I would just book a lesson with Jake Newman and find out how he does it. He's a very well-regarded teacher here on BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgoogle Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If your in London there will be a heap of players around who can give you a lesson. Both jazzers and classical guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I find holding the bass firmly using the cranium as a pivot makes playing it much more stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) [quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1403013261' post='2478839'] I find holding the bass firmly using the cranium as a pivot makes playing it much more stable. [/quote] Paul wins!! PS thanks Kev Edited June 20, 2014 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I am finding these descriptions unreadable but I haven't got this problem so that is ok. I had a lesson with Jake so my technique is now impeccable. Nearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks all for suggestions and input. Had a lesson last week with one of my several teachers and we really nailed the posture stuff. I had it 95% right, but was lacking the left knee contact - now able to get my standing right and free up that left hand some more. All sessions in the shed for me now involve putting the bass down and picking it back up frequently to get into finding that comfortable stance. Some of the biggest revelations from our session were actually regarding right hand pizz technique - some real lightbulb moments that just wouldn't have happened without someone standing right there guiding me through it. Although having the right posture of course helps both hands. It's all so much easier in person! Edited June 23, 2014 by Hector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I agree, I never had a lesson on bass guitar and got away with it but on DB a good teacher can give you so much useful information, some of which you might never pick up on your own. For anyone within reach of Leeds I can recommend Geoff Chalmers (geoffbassist on BC and Twitter), great player, nice guy, and a methodical teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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