TAB or no TAB on transcriptions?

[lobematt]

Hey guys!

I've posted the start of a transcription with TAB to see what people think of it and I'm getting pretty mixed reviews. So far everything has been TAB free, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could follow the link and join the discussion to let me know what you think!

Thanks!!

http://www.mattlawtonbass.com/new-ray-brown-transcription/

[bagsieblue]

No Tab.
IMO tab is a short cut that, like most shortcuts, is actually the long way round.
I dont get the non readers comments as you have to 'read' tab to some extent.
Charts also need chords to be able to apply the dots to the underlying harmony.
I've avoided tab like the plague for a couple of years now.
I honestly believe that it seriously held me back over the years.

[Dad3353]

Good morning, Matt...

I think it rather depends on who the transcriptions are aimed at. If they're for accomplished or budding musicians, a dotted score should pose no greater problem than that already facing them. If, however, the complete amateur is targeted, who will probably never need nor want to read scores, then tab is a very useful support. When both are on the page, it's not that difficult to ignore that which is not required, although for the non-readers, the timing is usually read from the score and the fingering from the tab. Would it be too cumbersome to provide both the score alone and the version with both, and let the audience decide..? That would be my tuppence-worth.
Incidentally, I had a look around and would congratulate you on the quality of the transcriptions I've seen; excellent work. I can't see any 'downside' to giving the option of having a tab beneath the score; I'm sure that it could help many that find 'all dots' intimidating. Keeping the 'score alone' version is doubtless the best for serious players or students, however.
Hope this helps.

[lobematt]

Thanks for the replies. I think I might end up uploading both, the readers really don't want TAB by the sounds of things so far and the TAB readers just want to try and get involved! I agree with most that everybody should try and read but for the more casual players I wouldn't like to exclude them =)

[foal30]

no tab

[Grangur]

[quote name='bagsieblue' timestamp='1403332211' post='2481861']
No Tab.
IMO tab is a short cut that, like most shortcuts, is actually the long way round.
I dont get the non readers comments as you have to 'read' tab to some extent.
Charts also need chords to be able to apply the dots to the underlying harmony.
I've avoided tab like the plague for a couple of years now.
I honestly believe that it seriously held me back over the years.
[/quote]
+ 1
TAB imho is "painting by numbers" for musicians. The trouble is TAB gives no timing. So you can't play anything you don't already know the sound of.

[timmo]

As a beginner in learning to read music, i find that tab can help with some of the bits i can`t read. However, i would prefer transcription over tab any day.

[DorsetBlue]

Personally, as someone who can read music but is not used to Bass Clef (used to play brass which is mainly in Treble Clef), when I create scores - I put on both. This allows me to use the score for note timings and the tab to give me a heads up when I accidentally head back into Treble mode.

[Coilte]

I am in the "no tab" camp. However, tab if used sparingly (e.g. on music where it is hard to hear the bass lines or for very fast passages) IMO does not present too much of a problem. It is over reliance and over use, rather than tab itself that causes problems.

As for "casual" players. IMO they would be better served to use their ear to figure out songs.

As to whether you yourself should use tab in your transcriptions......NO would be my reply.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Coilte

[AntLockyer]

I'm all for the Tab.

[JuliusGroove]

I regret ever looking at tab!

Now that I'm struggling to learn to read, I wish I had just hit notation since the start, I'd be able to read so much better..

[Old_Ben]

You can also add timing indicators to tabs, like W - Whole, H - Half, Q - Quarter, E - Eighth, S - Sixteenth. as an example:

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/l/led_zeppelin/over_the_hills_and_far_away_btab.htm#

[lobematt]

Thanks for the input guys, I think although some people have said things like not including TAB is a bit 'elitist'. From the feedback I've had all round it kind of seems that including TAB in rock/pop transcriptions will be helpful but for the jazz stuff the general consensus is no TAB. Although this will probably add to the elitist view there definitely are two very different types of players out there. The type that just want to play some tunes and the type that are really trying to learn music, not that one is better than the other but they both want different materials to learn with.

[sybass6]

The problem with TAB is that there is no musical information or content contained in it. When you're learning your bass you need to associate your neck in pitches (notes) first, this is how we improve as musicians. Not by associating it with numbers. TAB does not allow us to do this. It stops us from learning music because TAB isn't music it's simply a numbers system developed for people who don't know how to read. In my opinion, and that's all this is, TAB will not help you develop as a bass player and certainly won't help you musically. If you want to learn a piece of music without reading the notation then use your ears. That's far more beneficial.

Our aim is to develop our bass playing and musicianship at the same time. Developing both aspects in tandem. Learn to read, improve your ear. Leave TAB alone. Some people on Facebook etc have put forward the argument saying "What about the Nashville Number System, that's numbers"......But the difference is that the Nashville system is used by studio musicians for ease of transposition and is fast to write down on sessions that have a fast turn over. You need to know music and your harmonised scale to use and read it. TAB you don't. You don't find it in any professional musical situation whatsoever.......Why does it exist then in music education?

Sorry for rambling hahaha

Best regards.

Edited July 9, 2014 by sybass6

[lobematt]

Good point!!

[AntLockyer]

[quote name='sybass6' timestamp='1404862955' post='2496574']
The problem with TAB is that there is no musical information or content contained in it.
[/quote]

Apart from the fact that if you fret the instructions you will have the melody you are trying to reproduce at least in pitch form.

[quote name='sybass6' timestamp='1404862955' post='2496574']
Our aim is to develop our bass playing and musicianship at the same time.
[/quote]

Yours might be but there are millions of people that just want to play songs. Learning someone else's notes also builds a library of musical techniques that while you might not understand to start with can certainly be reproduced when you are making stuff up for yourself.

[quote name='sybass6' timestamp='1404862955' post='2496574'] If you want to learn a piece of music without reading the notation then use your ears. That's far more beneficial.
[/quote]

Why?

[sybass6]

My point was that you're not associating your neck with music using tab. Simply numbers......We must understand everything we play, it's so important. Tab doesn't let you develop musically. It doesn't let you think musically and it doesn't let you understand what you are playing the way standard notation does. To use tab you must have heard the song first or know the song to some extent. That's why it isn't used in any form of performance etc.

Why is it beneficial to develop you ear in music?......Why do you think?

This TAB v Standard notation debate should not exist......but sadly it does and will continue to do so. Yes, learning to read and understand music is hard but it's FAR more beneficial than a short cut, painting by numbers system.

[Grangur]

From another thread (http://basschat.co.uk/topic/240653-tab/)
[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1404981452' post='2497438']
Isn't this really a matter of "horses for courses" ?

If you book [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Pino, Billy Sheehan or Jeff Beck, or any other leading bass player, you're booking them for what they will bring to the party and add to the music. This will also be true in a lot of band situations. So in this case no reading is required. I guess in this situation what gets to be the bass part will be what comes out of a jam session.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]If you're doing a theatre pit gig you will probably need to read. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]TABs are all very well, but if a pianist is writing the score for a more serious piece of music and wants to write a bass part for you he will either have to learn the bass fretboard to write the TABS for you, or you will have to learn to read music.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Speaking for myself, I learned to read and play from a score because I was reading the TABs in books and thinking "this is playing by numbers", it wasn't doing anything to help me learn the notes on the FB. I'm not sure what it was doing to improve my knowledge. So learning to read has got me more into understanding the chords being used and the logic and patterns. But I guess that's not everyone's cup of tea.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The TAB can be useful as a recommendation to play the score on certain part of the neck to get better accessibility. But then I've also seen books where the TAB has you running all over the neck when I can see there's an easier way to play it.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

[sybass6]

The ability to read is a tool that musicians have......nothing more. Like slapping, tapping, whatever......There are many many session & gigs that don't require reading. Understanding music and what to play, totally, but not reading. There are also situations that require you to read all the time. There is not one MD, composer, arranger etc etc that will use tab. Chord charts, Nashville numbers, yes but to play using these you need to know music and what to play. Absolutely, you're booking Pino etc for who they are and what they do but you wouldn't book them on a reading gig. Having this "tool" allows you to say "Yes" to gigs.

[AntLockyer]

[quote name='sybass6' timestamp='1405004294' post='2497813']
We must understand everything we play, it's so important.
[/quote]

I don't agree.

[Grangur]

[quote name='sybass6' timestamp='1405004294' post='2497813']
We must understand everything we play, it's so important.
[/quote]... if we're to learn anything from playing what we play..

I agree.

Some folk are, however, simply happy to [s]regurgitate[/s] reproduce bass lines produced by others verbatim

[Dad3353]

There appears to be a whole slew of confusion here. There is nothing inherent in tab that prevents one from learning the fretboard. I know of many (most..?) guitarists and bassists who know perfectly well what note they're playing, and where the notes are on the fretboard; all of them. Whether they use dots, or tab, or neither seems not to affect [i]per se[/i] their ability to play the right notes, and to know what they're playing. Ask 'em to play in 'A', they play in 'A'. Ask 'em for 'Eb', you get 'Eb'. Notation, in any form, be it standard, tab, Nashville or anything else is a way of communicating between players that use that same format. Some media are more 'powerful' and/or universal than others. They all have a certain 'learning curve', more or less difficult or complex. None are perfect for everything. There is one (by definition: 'standard'...) which has much wider appeal and usefulness than others. This does not make it the only medium for everyone, nor the other systems completely useless nor redundant. It sounds to me like pedantry to suggest otherwise.
Just for the record: yes, I read 'dots', albeit slowly, for guitar, bass, drums and keyboard. Yes, I also read tab, albeit slowly, for guitar and bass. I can write either; I'm most fluent reading/writing 'dots' for drums (I'm a drummer...). There is no disgrace in only using the tools that suit one's purpose. There's nothing especially smart nor clever in being fluent in any of these systems. Why the vehemence..?

[sybass6]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1405005594' post='2497845']
I don't agree.
[/quote]

Why? It isn't important to understand what you're playing?

[AntLockyer]

Because if what comes out of the speakers is the song you are supposed to be playing it makes no difference if you know it is in A minor switching to Bsus9 no 3 for the bridge, and it is a pattern of descending 4ths. If I play something from a record without looking at notation of any form, do I know what I'm doing? Do I know that the 3rd fret on the E string followed by the 6th fret might mean that I've just played a minor 3rd of G or does it really matter because the listener doesn't care.

for what its worth I think knowing theory and reading are not related. Knowing the fretboard, knowing the triads, scales, modes etc doesn't need you to be able to read dots. I can play a piece of tab and know the relationship of the notes just as you can from a piece dot based notation. What is missing is the rhythm part and for most pop music the addition of the record to the notation will solve that.

[sybass6]

If you play something from a record without the notation, do you know what you're doing?......You should absolutely know you're doing. It is very important to know what you're playing inside out.....otherwise what's the point? But, hey the listener doesn't care so why bother.......Pfffft.

Of course it makes a difference knowing what key you're in, what the chords are that you're playing over, the rhythms you're playing. Also it's important to know what the other instruments are doing as well. If you're given a set of chord changes, counted in. what do you play? But even if your playing along to records etc you should still know what you're playing.

I think reading and theory are heavily related. Isn't it better to be able to read the language you're learning? In your post you said you understand the note relationships to the harmony........So you understand what you're playing. Are you not a better player & musician because of knowing that? I'm sure you are.