Tired of my MarkBass F1. Need sugestions.

[dave_bass5]

Ive been using MB heads since they became available over here. My current (of about 3 years) is my F1 head and ive never really had any negative thoughts about it....until recently.

During the past 9 years with my covers bands ive had MB heads, but have also dabbled with a few others. I had a GK1001RB-II which although was nice i found i didnt like the idea of having to have a slightly dirty tone to get the volumes my MB SA450 could reach cleanly.

I had a GB Streamliner which again, was really nice but i felt was again a bit under powered for getting a loud clean tone. Maybe the 900 would have been better.
Also had a Ashdown AMB 300. Wont talk about that one.

These were all put through a Schroeder 1210 or 1212L, so the playing field was pretty even and all heads were used on repeat gigs (GK and SA450 on the same gig once).
Ive also tried a few different cabs along the way but always came back to the Schroeders.

Anyway, over the past few years ive found i cant gig without my BDDI, just to liven things up a bit. Drive knob at "0" though. To me i have a nice tone, but its a bit bland.

When i use my Zoom 60B at home i can cycle through different heads, and the MB head really stands out as being just that, bland and dull. I know this is not a true indication but i now want to try something new.

Ive seen quite a few mentions of the GK 500 Fusion head, and it does seem to tick all the right boxes, but as ive not brought a new head for a few years ive not kept up with whats available, so i need some other suggestions for something in the same area before i decided. Small and light (laptop bag sized if possible), at least 500watts in to 4 ohms, not more than £600 and, well thats it really. Im not too keen on tubes, as i would worry about them failing, but im not against them, and do appreciate what they bring to the tone, so this isnt a stumbling block.
What im not interested in is a Shuttle, or TC450, as i looked in to them before and wasn't too keen.

Thanks for any advice and tips etc, and sorry this is so long winded. I wanted to paint a picture of what ive already gone through over the past few years.

[chrismuzz]

Hmm.. tough one! As far as micro heads go Markbass have been the best I've used by far. I wouldn't say the F1 is bland or dull, if anything it stands out TOO much! Maybe try some different strings? I've found that stainless steel strings are ridiculously aggressive through this amp and often had to turn down the upper mids a little bit (Especially when using drive)

By the way, I DO realise the hypocrisy here... I traded mine for a Peavey BAM combo

Maybe wait for the Peavey MiniMega to come out?

[BassBunny]

Dave you mentioned using an SA450, currently my weapon of choice. I've been through them all and I coudn't get on with an F1, (or any other Class D head if it comes down to it). I find Class D stuff to be bloody loud but it doesn't have the "clout" that an SA450 or LM2/3 have. Difference in technology I guess.
Probably the best head i used was an Eden WT550. Tons of natural tone and really made it's presence felt. Had to sell due a back problem, but IMHO it blows any Class D amp I have tried out of the water.
Maybe back to an SA450 or LM3?

[Prime_BASS]

The markbass is a fairly neutral starting point in terms of tone, so personally I don't see anything wrong with keeping the head and using either the zoom or BDDI for something different, at least then you can turn it off if a few weeks later you decide you hate the colour.
You can't really turn an amps tonal characteristics off.

[discreet]

Dave, you're more than welcome to come and audition my GK MB500 Fusion any time.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Just to be clear, its a GAS thing more than anything else. Having used MB for so long i just feel like im missing out a bit and fancy a change.

I agree about the SA450/LMII having more clout, and its possible that getting rid of these was not a good move. Saying that, i have been getting some really good tones with the F1/BDDI combo but its this tone that im getting bored with, as well as just the head on its own.
I dont like using the Zoom live, its a bit too cold compared to the BDDI.

Ive had this set up long enough that its outlasted different basses/strings/ FX etc. All have made a difference but having used my Zoom at home (PC-Headphones) with the different amp sims i really feel its the amp that going to make a difference, and one avenue ive still to explore fully.

The other heads ive had have definitely had a different tonal character, and id like to sample more of this.
In a way the Streamliner was the best head ive ever owned, but i felt it was too much of a different tone to what i was used to, and maybe didnt give it long enough. I could certainly go back to that tone, although id rather not re visit anything ive already owned.

I suppose the head doesn't have to be a class D, im not adverse to a slightly larger head, id just prefer to sample some of the newer technology. Something like a Ampeg SVT is definitely not my tone, nor size.

Mark. Thanks for the offer, ill keep it in mind. I must admit the Fusion is looking like a front runner.

[Lozz196]

I had an MB Fusion paired with a Schroeder and it was a great sounding set-up. The MB Fusion can get that thick, rich warm old-school vibe quite easily, but whack up the highs and you still get the GK tone (though not as crisp as the regular MB 500 imo). As with anything, in the mix is where it all shines, on its own it sounds very GK-like, but in the mix it just seems to have much more depth to the sound. I`d take Mark up on his offer there Dave.

Going from the above it seems that you go for a similar tone to what I like, and another amp I liked when having a tryout was the Aguilar Tonehammer 500. Much like a modern sounding Ampeg is how I`d describe it.

[Prime_BASS]

Well I'll say that a relatively flat preamp into a bucket load of tubes always sounds great to me.

EBS Fafner 2 is something I want to try, I find EBS to have a different character but can still do the clean and clear I like about my GB.

[Musicman20]

Gallien MB500? Might be a good amp to try out.

[Mr.T]

I am wondering why you were not keen on the TC450?

I was using a Markbass LM2 and also found my Sansamp (VT Bass) needed to be on all the time.
A couple of months ago I picked up a TC RH450 , and although it has taken me a dozen gigs, I think my sound is now the best it ever has been!

The RH450 is definately 'coloured', but I Like the colour (with some fairly minor EQ'ing).
If you want to explore Amp Sims..... I would keep your Markbass, as it is fairly neutral (my LM2 seems to be!).

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Mr.T' timestamp='1403314315' post='2481844']
If you want to explore Amp Sims..... I would keep your Markbass, as it is fairly neutral (my LM2 seems to be!).
[/quote]

100% this. Amp sims and especially drives pair better with Markbass heads because they're clear and relatively uncoloured... and in the mix is where they shine!. A lot of amps have an inherent tone or cut in the upper mids which makes effects stand out less.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look in to them over the weekend.

When I tried the TC450 I felt it sounded a bit thin (as did a shuttle tried at the same time). To be honest any head will work for me, but I want one that I feel comfortable with, and I guess I'm so used to the MB tone that maybe I'll never get away from it. I've probably done about 400 gigs with Markbass heads, I guess maybe that's an indication that it is working and that I'm just having a GAS period again.

Part of this change was I wanted to get rid of the BDDI, as I would prefer to just go bass - amp - cab. I'm not a lover of extra boxes to plug in. I did use my B3 a couple of times as an amp, straight in to the FX return of my F1, and while it worked ok I felt it was complicating things as far as too many levels/gain/knobs go.

I'm sure amp sims can work but why have two boxes simulating one box? I very rarely touch any controls during gigs, so whatever the rig is set to at the start it stays that way, I wouldn't go switching different amps on and off, but I found having my B3 or 60B at gigs caused a distraction as I did start fiddling.

Saying that, maybe a tube preamp or something better than the BDDI might be the way to go. Fran suggested a tube pre amp, and maybe this is what I should look at. When I had my Streamliner I never needed the BDDI, so I know I can get by without it, but I find it just livens up the F1 and gives it a bit or depth.
As I've said I don't want distortion but I could use a bit more warmth. Im not looking for an Amgeg tone either. I looked at the MXR bass pre but thought it wasn't really what I was looking for (plus I have the simulation of that in my 60D so have tried it out). The new MXR pre amp looks much more suitable but doesn't have a real tube in it. I might as well keep the BDDI unless I do get a tube pre.
Any suggestions there?

I think this thread as made me realise I should stick with the F1 for now (I was never going to sell it, just use it as a back up) and put something nicer in front of it.

EDIT: Or maybe get a F500. Always wanted one of those and i could then sell the F1.

Edited June 21, 2014 by dave_bass5

[Mr.T]

It sounds like you are pretty much where I was at a few months ago.....
I was happy with my LM2 + VT pedal, but wanted to simplify my gear.
I was only using the pedal to shape my tone, not to add distortion (as such).
I also am a 'set it and forget it' kind of player!

The RH certainly does what I need, all in one box.
.......but as I said
.......It did take about a dozen gigs to get the sound where I wanted it.

[Lozz196]

Maybe one of the Little Mark Tube amps Dave? I had the LMT 500 and whilst I couldn`t really define exactly what the "tube" bit did - as it didn`t seem to do much - all I know was that I much preferred it on than off. I suppose it just blurred the edges a bit. Maybe like shutting a tweeter off, generated a bit more of an old-school vibe. I went to a shop intending on trying the LMT, LMIII and TC RH450, heard the LMT with tube on, didn`t bother with the others. Have been thinking of putting an LMT into my Markbass CMD121 in fact, get a bit more from it.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Mr.T' timestamp='1403345936' post='2481976']
It sounds like you are pretty much where I was at a few months ago.....
I was happy with my LM2 + VT pedal, but wanted to simplify my gear.
I was only using the pedal to shape my tone, not to add distortion (as such).
I also am a 'set it and forget it' kind of player!

The RH certainly does what I need, all in one box.
.......but as I said
.......It did take about a dozen gigs to get the sound where I wanted it.
[/quote]

Looking at the spec of the RH450 it seems to tick every box i can think of (other than a false output spec IIR). Ill have another look at these if i do go the new head route.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1403346016' post='2481979']
Maybe one of the Little Mark Tube amps Dave? I had the LMT 500 and whilst I couldn`t really define exactly what the "tube" bit did - as it didn`t seem to do much - all I know was that I much preferred it on than off. I suppose it just blurred the edges a bit. Maybe like shutting a tweeter off, generated a bit more of an old-school vibe. I went to a shop intending on trying the LMT, LMIII and TC RH450, heard the LMT with tube on, didn`t bother with the others. Have been thinking of putting an LMT into my Markbass CMD121 in fact, get a bit more from it.
[/quote]

Yes, the LMT does look like another option but i think it might still be too close to what ive had in the past to warrant buying. As i want to keep my F1, having another MB head might not make sense, but on the other hand its almost like having a normal MB head with a BDDI inside, so maybe i will look in to selling the F1 to get that.

Edited June 21, 2014 by dave_bass5

[discreet]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1403367789' post='2482186']
As I want to keep my F1, having another MB head might not make sense, but on the other hand its almost like having a normal MB head with a BDDI inside, so maybe I will look in to selling the F1 to get that.
[/quote]

But... if you don't like the 'T' in the LMT you won't be able to chop and change like you could with a pedal... just sayin'.

Edited June 21, 2014 by discreet

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403375385' post='2482257']


But... if you don't like the 'T' in the LMT you won't be able to chop and change like you could with a pedal... just sayin'.
[/quote]

Indeed, and it's a consideration.

Although it's not a really accurate test I do have the MB studio 1 amp sim and that has the LMT in it. It allows you to play around. With the settings just like the real thing. To my ears there is no difference with or without the tube engaged, but as Lozz said, it's more a subtle thickening and I'd expect it to be different with a real cab.

[Prime_BASS]

There isn't a whole lot or difference between having the tube on over the SS but I always preferred it, the extra harmonic distortion you get I could never hear through anything other than a bass cab. Just livens up the bass more make it pop more on the top. No colour per se but tubes introduce harmonic distortion which I translate as makes the harmonics louder so in turn makes the bass sound louder too.

Maybe a rack pre? Get the rack ears for the F1 and you still essentially have one box. Once it's all racked up in a rack bag or something they never have to move or be unplugged.
The ampeg rack pres I always liked, loads of tubes in those.

[dave_bass5]

Yes, my experience does seem to indicate this. I'd never put too much emphasis on having tubes but I do get their usefulness and maybe this is what I'm missing (and why I use a BDDI in the first place).
I had a VT Bass when it first came out never liked it. I didn't give it long but it was something I knew I wouldn't take to. Same goes for the Tech21 Paradriver. That seemed perfect on paper but I felt it was more just an EQ rather than something that added to the flat tone of the F1.
Also now considering another Streamliner, but the 900 this time.

Racking my gear is out of the question. I'm looking to keep things small and this would be the opposite. Even wen. I had the Streamliner before I could get everything in one small bag.

[discreet]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1403385673' post='2482343']
Also now considering another Streamliner, but the 900 this time.
[/quote]

Just as a matter of interest I took my GKMB500F to bertbass's place when I went there to listen to his Streamliner 900 and BF '69er (a very nice-sounding rig by the way) and we compared the two amps. It's quite possible to get the big low end of the STM with the GKMB500F. You can pretty much make either amp do more or less the same things - but in my view the EQ options of the GK are superior, particularly when it comes to the all-important mids. [size=4]The STM [/size][i]looks[/i][size=4] much nicer - it's got the glowing blue lights and so on - and the GK looks like a car radio (it's smaller than the STM), but that matters not to me. [/size]

[size=4]Edit: I should point out once again that you don't need any preamps or pedals or valve boxes with the GK - you just plug your bass in and there you are - it's actually difficult to make it sound bad. The core tones are great. IMHO, of course. [/size]

[size=4]Edit: I'm probably not helping much, am I..? [/size]

Edited June 21, 2014 by discreet

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Mark.
You are indeed helping. I had forgotten about the limited EQ on the Streamliner, and hadn't realised the GK had a few extra features on some of the pots. As a previous 1212L owner your thoughts are very relevant, as you are aware of how coloured that cab can be.

Having just seen a really nice demo of the 500F on YouTube I'm pretty much convinced that I should give GK another shot.
I really like the dual channel function, I could definitely make use of this, and the fact you can enter the mid freq of the contour knob is a bonus. I really like the lights as well (shallow I know).

The 500F seems reasonably priced, but I quite fancy the 800watt version, just for a bit more clean headroom. This was what I thought the 1001RB-II lacked. I don't need this type of volume but what the hell, better to have it than to be forced to use a dirty tone. Just have to weigh up the cost really, might have to sell the F1 if I go for the 800.

The one thing that I'm not sure of is how reliable these tube heads are. Although I've no experience with tubes failing it was a big worry when I had my Streamliner, and one of the reasons I sold it. I like peace of mind at gigs.

Cheers all for the help, I think I'm 90% made up on getting the GK now.

[Lozz196]

Well I must admit Dave, I never gave the tubes a moments though in my MB500F - and Kirky on here now has it and I`ve never read anything from him saying he`s had amp/tube failure, and I must have sold it to him in something like Sep 2012 - maybe PM him to see what he reckons?

[discreet]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1403391267' post='2482390']
The one thing that I'm not sure of is how reliable these tube heads are. Although I've no experience with tubes failing it was a big worry when I had my Streamliner, and one of the reasons I sold it. I like peace of mind at gigs.
[/quote]

Preamp valves very rarely fail, they are not under anywhere near as much stress as power valves and they last practically forever. It's really not an issue. My 1972 Burman Pre has the original Mullard valves in it and it's still going strong. And a SS amp is just as likely to fall over stone dead where a valve amp would not. Also, the 500F is going to be as loud as you ever need - really. It's possible to get massive clean heft from it. Please do bring a bass round to mine and check it out!

Edited June 22, 2014 by discreet

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Lozz and Mark.

Not having used tubes much I was a bit worried but as pointed out, the pre amp tubes very rarely go.

Right, I think it's defiantly going to be a GK Fusion head but I still need to decide which one.
Mark, I understand your point about the volume, and agree, 800 is waaaay too much for me. The thing is I actually like the 800 better, and like the idea of the one master volume, and all the lights :-). The only negatives I've read concern the duel function knobs having very little friction, and no indication of if they are in or out. This seems to be a non issue for most though. I do like the idea of the set and forget switches on the top though.
EDIT: Oh, looks like they lights up when pushed in. More lights to look at.

Mark, again a big thank you for the offer to come and try yours out, but unless I use it with my cab in a band situation I'll not really get an idea of how well it works. I don't drive so getting around is not practical (and my cab is with my drummer up in North London).
I'll just order one from Thomanns a week or so before my next gig, and if it doesn't work out I can send it back. I'm sure I won't have to though. I've only got two gigs over the next 6 weeks so I'm in no hurry.

Thanks all for the ideas and suggestions, I'm sure I'll change my mind once or twice more before ordering.

Edited June 22, 2014 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Me agin with another idea.
I've been looking at the Darkglass Vintage Deluxe and this looks like it might be a cheaper option than changing the amp.
To me it looks like a more neutral version of my BDDI. The Era knob looks like a good idea and maybe a one knob tweak I could make use of.
As much as I love my BDDI it's really only there to add a bit of punch as I don't really like the full on SVT emulation, but the VTM seems to be more flexible.

Any thoughts on this idea?