Kevsy71 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Yep, the socket ring to the pub went three times - I didn't get a chance to get the details from the landlord but can only assume we tripped the fuse. We were daisy chaining adapter boards - power amp and mixer of one wall socket, bass stack and 12v PSU, guitar stack and effects, two powered monitors off another. Any advice on ways to minimise the chance of this happening in future...? Cheers Kev Edited June 22, 2014 by Kevsy71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 [quote name='Kevsy71' timestamp='1403443964' post='2482699']...Any advice on ways to minimise the chance of this happening in future...?...[/quote] Split the load across different sockets, which have separate circuit breakers. Try very hard to have any lights etc from yet another circuit. During sound check, have a few minutes of playing 'all out' (drums not required, unless going through PA...) to see if it holds up. If it trips, consider throttling back for the whole set, or sacrifice something (half the monitors..? Vocal only in PA and cut the subs..? A 'normal' band set-up should not trip a 'normal' circuit, imo. 3kw is a lot for a pub. It sounds as if you were unlucky, and that his (the pub's...) wiring is sub-standard. Subject to correction, completion and/or contradiction from others; hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citymariner Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We had this a few his back. Turns out at the next rehearsal the valves went in a Mesa guitar amp - I think this had something to do with the trips as we'd used all the normal tricks of limiting draw on the rings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Dad's right that 3kW (a single 13A socket) is quite a bit of power and a band would have to have a pretty substantial set up to exceed it. As long as all your plugs and socket strips are correctly fused, there should be no danger of overloading anything by having (say) 20 things all being powered through a single 13A socket. That's what the fuses are for. However, a lot depends on what else the circuit you've plugged into is also supplying and it's easily possible for the band's power demand to push the circuit over the limit . . . though it could equally be argued that it's the pub's dishwasher that is the cause of the problem. Just because you plug into a 13A socket, it doesn't mean 13A is actually available because the rest of the circuit might already be close to maximum capacity. If it's a frequent problem, I'd suggest buying one of these gizmos: http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/13a-plug-in-energy-saving-monitor-n67fu Then, at next rehearsal, make sure you have all the band gear going through a single 13A plug and then plug it into this gadget and measure how much power the whole band actually draws. Then, to be contractually squeaky clean, you'd be able to explicitly state how much power the band requires from the venue (though that would probably be a bit OTT for the average pub band!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tracks_vm100_voltage_meter.htm As soon as you plug into the socket, this will tell you just how much risk you are running. If only the red LEDs light up, you're gonna struggle. I've used something similar to this for years, and it's saved me a fair amount of grief in some pubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsy71 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thanks everyone for the great advice - much appreciated! Cheers Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 [quote name='citymariner' timestamp='1403450672' post='2482760'] We had this a few his back. Turns out at the next rehearsal the valves went in a Mesa guitar amp - I think this had something to do with the trips as we'd used all the normal tricks of limiting draw on the rings etc. [/quote] I would say that it was the tripping of the electrics that cause the valves to fail and not the other way around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Could be a number of things tripping the circuits. They boil down to too much current, earth leaks and a faulty component, anything from the trip itself to absolutely anything connected to the mains including anything in the same building, nothing to do with the band! Might be something like the fridge stat in the kitchens for instance. The most common reason for a trip is an earth problem. Those earth leakage breakers are designed to save you from shock and are really sensitive. The way to avoid tripping these yourselves is to plug everything into a single socket. This also protects you from shocks. The reason is that if there is anything wrong with the house wiring (and those socket testers won't pick up this fault) the earth on different sockets may have different voltages on them. Then if you connect between the backline and the PA by touching a mic stand for instance a small current will flow, 6 thousandths of an amp is enough and off goes the mains, but the lights stay on. Really you shouldn't normally overload a single socket. 13A is 3000W. It will almost certainly be connected to a ring main with a 32A trip. You'll blow the fuse in the plug first. You may have 3000W of amp but unless you are producing 100% distortion every second of the gig you won't be drawing 3000W, that's just for the peaks. Valve amps draw a little more but I doubt that your average power draw for the sound is more than 300W. the only way you will draw 3000W is if you have a lot of old fashioned lighting. Plug that into a different circuit and don't put it where you can touch it to avoid the earth leak problem. It is really important you don't trust the house wiring. Even when recently tested one loose connection can create a problem. Always plug all your gear into a single socket so that all of it is earthed to the same point, if you get a shock off any of your gear something is wrong, it isn't static. Be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsy71 Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks for the advice Phil Starr - if we were to run off a single socket is something like a Furman 10-connection strip considering? I'd rather that than daisy-chaining power strips: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_m10x_e.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_m10x_e.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I agree with the single socket thing, but I find that daisy-chaining power strips is more convenient than having a single multiway strip. I guess a single one is OK if you make up custom-length mains cables, but multiple socket strips means it's easy to take power outlets to where they are actually needed. Horses for courses I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'd agree with flyfisher on daisy chaining, technically either is fine. One band I watched last Fri had six strips, three along the back row and three along the line of floor wedges at the front also supplying their PA actives. They simply laid them down before they set anything else up so the sockets are in the same relative position every time they play and everything is kept tidy with no mains running across the performance area. What a great idea. I'm off to buy a couple more strips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Oh should have said the obvious but it's a safety thing so here goes. If the fault occurs again at another venue then you need to get your gear checked because something is wrong. Get it PAT tested. Probably ought to do that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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