Thinking of going solder-less....

[SimonEdward]

As the title suggests - looking at dipping my toe into making up my own pedal board patch cables. I've seen some kits for about £40 which will make up five patch cables (so not [i]that[/i] cheap!). I've watched some videos on tube wotsit and it looks straightforward-ish.

I guess there are some of you out there who are using them? Which one's did you go for, and what is your experience, good / bad / indifferent etc does it really improve your sound?? OR should I spend the £40 on a decent signal buffer/line driver..

OR both? OR none of the above - and just stick with 'regular' cables/plugs................................... thanks people!

[planer]

If you can figure out that there is some benefit to making your own, then fill your boots. I can't see one myself, and the chances of it improving your sound are 2/10ths of nowt to be honest. As long as your existing cables are half-reasonable and working, that is.

Also I can't find anything better for holding bits of electrickery together than good old soldering.

[JapanAxe]

I use Lava Cable. It is not as easy as they make out to fit the plugs without shorting the signal to earth, but you can make the patch cables the exact lengths to fit your board, and easily re-use pieces. I don't know whether the audio quality is better than any decent patch cable, but avoid those cheapo moulded plastic ones that come in packs of 5 or 6.

[HowieBass]

[quote name='planer' timestamp='1403647823' post='2485007']
If you can figure out that there is some benefit to making your own, then fill your boots. I can't see one myself, and the chances of it improving your sound are 2/10ths of nowt to be honest. As long as your existing cables are half-reasonable and working, that is.

Also I can't find anything better for holding bits of electrickery together than good old soldering.
[/quote]

+1 I'd only advise solderless if you desperately want to make up your own cables and don't know how to solder. The solderless plugs where you have screw terminal connections are in my opinion more reliable than the fancy new design plugs where a spike is supposed to push into the central core because you cannot confirm by eye whether the connection is good once the plug's been attached.

[LukeFRC]

I don't often venture into effects-forum world - and then had to google about to work out what you were talking about...
do short cables with screw in terminals on the jack sound any different than short cables with soldered jacks? if so how? and if you are going to make your own cables why not just buy a soldering iron?
...and if you have a need for a signal buffer/line driver ... then different cables aint going to make any difference

and seeing as the bass in your profile pic is an active one, what's the line driver for?

yours confused

Luke

[HowieBass]

Patch cables using solderless plugs will sound no better than properly soldered conventional plugs assuming the cable is the same quality.

[UglyDog]

IMO:
Quality cable + quality plugs + careful soldering = unbeatable.

[Roland Rock]

Where's best for the conventional (solderable) right angled 'low profile' (flat) plugs?

This type, with guaranteed quality.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hosa-IRG-100-5-Low-Profile-Right-Angle-1-4-Jack-Patch-Cable-6-/281343823905

I've had a few where the jack column can rotate in its casing - not sure that's a good thing?

[6v6]

Unless you're really not willing to spend some time learning to solder, I don't see the point of solderless systems, the plugs are *way* more expensive, and they're bound to be less reliable than properly assembled soldered cables.

Get yourself a cheap soldering iron (something like an antex cs18, which will cost less than £20 and last for years) and a few cheap soldered connectors and give it a go, I got some of [url="http://www.studiospares.com/jack-plug-right-angled-mono/invt/575190?VBMST=angle%20jack%20plug"]these[/url] from studiospares recently and they're good for the money (the solderless ones are four times the price).

[flyfisher]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1403683785' post='2485164']
IMO:
Quality cable + quality plugs + careful soldering = unbeatable.
[/quote]

Pretty much. An alternative to soldering is crimping, which is widely used in industry and produces highly reliable joints, but it requires the appropriate connectors and the proper crimping tool so is not generally as convenient for the DIYer.

Soldering really isn't very difficult and it only takes a little time to get the hang of it. It's nowhere near as difficult as learning to play bass!

[1976fenderhead]

I was a big defender of soldered quality cables with quality plugs, some bought made and some soldered by myself, but I went for Lava Tightrope recently which are an easier system than their previous one and never looked back. Practical, quick, space-saving and everything sounds clearer and livelier than before, although to be fair my previous cables, though good quality were already several years old and I could tell some had developed tone-sucking while others not so much...

[E sharp]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1403685786' post='2485183']
Where's best for the conventional (solderable) right angled 'low profile' (flat) plugs?

This type, with guaranteed quality.
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hosa-IRG-100-5-Low-Profile-Right-Angle-1-4-Jack-Patch-Cable-6-/281343823905"]http://www.ebay.co.u...6-/281343823905[/url]

I've had a few where the jack column can rotate in its casing - not sure that's a good thing?
[/quote]
These are what I use . I had loads of George L's with cable , spent an age making them up (really carefully) and they kept going wrong . My mate had the same issue . I know many folk swear by them and have no troubles with them , but TBH , I found them a load of rubbish (over 100 quids worth , I got so annoyed I threw them away) . Hosa for me now - even more room on board and excellent quality .

[KingBollock]

If you are prepared to do some soldering, then keep an eye out for cheap lead deals. Sometimes you can get a lead with two plugs for less than you might spend on just the two plugs. And if the leads you buy are longer than you need then you get free cable too and won't even need to attach the plug on one end!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1403649058' post='2485027']Patch cables using solderless plugs will sound no better than properly soldered conventional plugs assuming the cable is the same quality.[/quote]

I agree. But with solderless kits it's much easier to put together a cable of the right length with compact jack plugs and save some space and have less spaghetti effect on your pedal board.

If you change your board layout much, or buy/sell pedals fairly regularly, or want to pack as much functionality as possible into as small a board as possible, then solderless kits are the way to go. It's not really an audio fidelity issue, just a practicality issue.

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1403688363' post='2485218']
Unless you're really not willing to spend some time learning to solder, I don't see the point of solderless systems, the plugs are *way* more expensive, and they're bound to be less reliable than properly assembled soldered cables.[/quote]

If you're going to buy plugs and cable and make up your own quality cables, you won't save much (or any) money over solderless kits like Lava or George L. And you will spend a lot more time cutting and stripping and soldering and pissing about than you would with solderless cables - where you just need to trim the ends of the cable with a knife and then screw them into the jack plugs.

[b]As for reliability: [/b]I've been using George L cables on my board for over 5 years now and I have had [b]one[/b] failure, in a rehearsal a few months ago. It was because a plug from one of my OC-2s was rubbing against a plug from my VP-Jr expression pedal (they were at right-angles to eachother) and somehow after a lot of modulation the OC-2 plug got unscrewed and the cap fell off it.

Thankfully it happened in rehearsal, but here's the nice thing: I lifted up my board, picked up the screw cap that had come loose, re-inserted the cable and tightened the screw cap with my fingers, and I was ready to go again. With soldered cables, well, obviously you would be either fishing around in your gig kit for a replacement cable or getting your soldering iron out.

When they do fail, which is rare, I would much rather have a solderless cable fail than a soldered one. I've had many years of soldered cables that become unreliable and when it happens they are a massive pain.

[KingBollock]

A slight hi-jack... What do people use to strip the outer sheath of instrument cable?

When I was a kid I worked for a time for a guitar shop that also made its own brand of cables. We had a handy little stripper that clamped on and you just wound it around the cable. I remember it was by Plas Plugs but I can't find one anywhere. Up until now I have been using scissors, but they are not ideal. I have seen them for mains cable but worry they might be a bit too strong.

[paul_5]

For stripping insulation from cables I just use a small pair of side cutters; not the easiest thing to work with, but it's what I'm used to.

When I started using solder less (George L) cables I A/B'ed one long on e against my usual Van Damme/Neutrik cable. The George L's didn't lose as much of the upper mids, and I know this because I recorded identical lines into ProTools and then got a spectral analyser on them. Because I am a bit of a geek.

Reliability has never been problem, but that might be down to them being on a board.

[icastle]

I bought one of these http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-strippers/2620151/?origin=PSF_412527|cav over 20 years ago and it's fab for removing outer sleeves.

On the inner conductive sleeve and insulating sleeves I just use a Stanley knife blade.

[icastle]

These solderless connectors aren't a new thing - they appear every few years for a while and then disappear again.

I used to sell them back in the 80's.

[thisnameistaken]

Like paul_5 I only use them on my pedal boards, I don't think I'd trust one as an instrument cable, but for me none of the benefits of a solderless cable really apply to an instrument cable anyway.

[BruceBass3901]

I started looking into going for Lava plugs or George L's for the small form factor. I then found a guy on here selling some patch leads already made up with the 'pancake style' plugs and Van Damme cable so opted for those instead. I have no decided to replace the rest of my patch leads with the same, so bought a loads of the plugs for somethings like 89p each from Bitsbox and a few metres of Van Damme cable from evilBay for less than a fiver and will be setting about soldering them up in the near future!

Don't do what I did and get caught purchasing the premade cables with the pancake plugs that are on eBay; the sum of the parts is far less than you will pay for these premade ones

[KingBollock]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1403865423' post='2487207']
Like paul_5 I only use them on my pedal boards, I don't think I'd trust one as an instrument cable, but for me none of the benefits of a solderless cable really apply to an instrument cable anyway.
[/quote]
I've got a Peavey instrument lead that has solderless plugs on it, it is very unreliable. I am going to cut it up to use for patch cables, with soldered plugs. I will keep the Peavey plugs, though, having them in a gig toolbox might be handy if you managed to pull the plug off your usual lead and don't have a spare lead or a soldering iron with you.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='BruceBass3901' timestamp='1403866568' post='2487222']
I started looking into going for Lava plugs or George L's for the small form factor. I then found a guy on here selling some patch leads already made up with the 'pancake style' plugs and Van Damme cable so opted for those instead. I have no decided to replace the rest of my patch leads with the same, so bought a loads of the plugs for somethings like 89p each from Bitsbox and a few metres of Van Damme cable from evilBay for less than a fiver and will be setting about soldering them up in the near future!

Don't do what I did and get caught purchasing the premade cables with the pancake plugs that are on eBay; the sum of the parts is far less than you will pay for these premade ones
[/quote]
What is Bitsbox like for delivery times and reliability?

[KingBollock]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1403850164' post='2486985']
For stripping insulation from cables I just use a small pair of side cutters; not the easiest thing to work with, but it's what I'm used to.
[/quote]
I find I get a smoother cut using scissors. I don't actually use a scissor action with instrument cable because it is soft enough that, if you get the scissors in the correct position, you can just turn the cable and it slices it. Even with mains cable, I find that a slight chopping action with the scissors is enough and will still leave a nice edge.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1403851307' post='2486997']
I bought one of these [url="http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-strippers/2620151/?origin=PSF_412527|cav"]http://uk.rs-online....=PSF_412527|cav[/url] over 20 years ago and it's fab for removing outer sleeves.

On the inner conductive sleeve and insulating sleeves I just use a Stanley knife blade.
[/quote]
That's a bit more than I was hoping to spend.

For thinner wires I have good strippers.

This kind:


I have a drawer full of these buggers and not one of them has ever worked:


I have a couple of sets of these, too, but I find them awkward for stripping:


Edit: Just made a monster set of helping hands by combining two sets. I also changed the crocodile clips for larger, stronger ones, they actually hold a 1/4" jack plug properly now. Feeling quite pleased with myself...

Edited June 28, 2014 by KingBollock

[ezbass]

I've been using George L's solderless leads for both pedal board and amp/board connection for years, they're simple to use and I've found them to be reliable and tonally sound.