NDBD - Boosey & Hawkes Excelsior for a complete novice.

[Bigjas]

So here I am posting in the Double Bass section. I never thought this day would happen, but the lovely Mrs Bigjas has bought me a Double Bass for my birthday (yes, I know how lucky I am )

I have been wanting one for about a year now, was going to get an EUB but I am so pleased she got me this one. It is such fun playing it, and I love having it taking pride of place in the lounge.

Its a Boosey & Hawkes Excelsior 3/4, and its had a hard life by the look of it. It has had a repair done to the neck joint, but its not been done very well. Other than that it looks ok, a few marks and lumps out of it, but it seems to play ok, bearing in mind this is the first time for me on an Upright Bass.

Does anyone know much history of these Bases? are they any good? I have searched these forums and google with some info, but not much. Mine has 50/2 written in pencil on the sticker in the left hand F hole, does anyone know what this stands for? I might spend some time and cash on it if its worth doing.

I know this is probably a stupid question, but what strings would you recommend for a novice without much cash to spend on strings. I have been looking at strings and they range from these from Thomman for £23 [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_kontrabasssaiten_34.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...sssaiten_34.htm[/url] to other strings up to £500+ for a set. Would the Thomman ones be ok or are they a waste of time? I don't mind spending whats needed if I will notice the difference.

Also, the bass comes with what I can only describe as a rubber type of damper that sits on the bridge. When I take it off it makes the bass more trebbley, is this something that is widley used? I have lots of questions, I am reading these forums to gather as much info as possible.

Some pics of my pride and joy. I am sure I will get GAS for pickups, a case and then another, better bass.........





Jas

[fatgoogle]

Thats a "practice" mute. There supposed to make the bass quieter when your practicing. Never used one, towels seem more effective. Take it off.

I don't know much about the bass but presume 50/2 is the model number of the company that made the bass, presumably Excelsior? and then import by Boosey & Hawkes. Thats my guess anyway. It looks like a laminate bass of some sort. Will do nicely for learning. Bring it to a luthier for a look over and a set up.

In terms of strings lots of people like Spirocore Weichs and Pirastro Evah Pirazzi. £23 won't buy you anything. The Evahs are about 150 i think.

Go get some lessons and get playing i suppose.

EDIT: those could actually already be spiro's on your bass? Might not need to change them.

Edited July 1, 2014 by fatgoogle

[Legion]

50/2 is the sort of format used by Strunal and they certainly have been playing their part in stringed instruments for a while:

[url="http://www.strunal.cz/Products/Products/Double-basses/"]http://www.strunal.cz/Products/Products/Double-basses/[/url]

Might be some historical denomination of products out of an earlier Eastern European facility?

[stingrayPete1977]

Cool another convert! Get into Geoffs lessons discover double bass.com. That should keep you busy along with all the experts on here, I couldn't of got where I am without them, which isn't very far to be fair but it sure is fun!

[Beer of the Bass]

From the colour of the silk at the tailpiece end and the shape of the ball ends, those strings look like Thomastik Spirocores of some sort. Those are quality strings and last for a long time, so there's a good chance you might not need to change them any time soon.
A good European laminated bass like that is fairly ideal as a starter bass, so I think you've done well there.

[Bilbo]

You are near Jake Newman (Aldershot). Get over to his place for a lesson and talk it over with him. He's a legend!

[philparker]

Welcome over to the DB side!

I would also keep an eye out for some good second hand strings on this forum as there are good bargains to be had at 2/3s to 1/2 price of the new price. Yes, good strings will make a very good and tangible difference. If you're only going to play pizz, then Spiros will be fine, if you also want to play arco then Evah Pirazzis will be better. It could get extremely expensive to find a personal choice by trying out lots of different strings. There are also some trial strings doing the rounds from Daff on the Innovation Strings sub-forum - they are also the best value strings to buy new for the price.

It's definitely worth getting a good tutor - and he/she can also advise you best about getting the set-up done on your new acquisition. You will get so much enjoyment, but you will have to spend some additional money!

[sarah thomas]

Just echoing what others have already said - Excelsiors are good basses, those look like Spirocore strings (you may find Innovation Honeys easier on the fingers to start with - see Daf's trial sub-forum), ditch the mute and take a lesson with Jake. And give your wife a big hug.

[bassace]

Continuing the theme, I was playing at the Upton Jazz Festival on Saturday and in the interval I was approached by a nice chap who rather diffidently asked me for advice about strings. He had recently been given a double bass by his family as a surprise present - for his seventieth! He was chuffed to bits and was having lessons from Alex Phillips who I gather is rather good.

The DB community is certainly growing.

[fatback]

Nothing to add to the above except well done you, cherish that Mrs, and have a blast.

You'll never regret this adventure, for sure.

[Bigjas]

Thank you for all the advice and welcome.

I have taken the practice mute off, and it sounds much better. I am starting to play and think I am getting the hang of it. Just need lots of practice to make sure I'm playing in tune all the time. Its easy to hit a 'bum' note.......... I love playing it though and I am so glad I have the chance to learn it. I can't put it down at the moment.

The strings feel fine to me and if they are quality ones thenI am inclined to leave them on for now. The action feels very high, it measures approx 15 mm at the end of the fingerboard. Looking at previous threads on the subject I think I will lower it a bit to see if it makes it easier to play.

I put a pic of me with it on my Facebook page, just about everyone that responded said it was a very cool instrument and can't wait to hear me playing it. They never said that about my regular electric bass............. go figure

Jas

[Hector]

Jas my man, welcome to the DB team! The basschat community is ace, and in my experience the DB side is one of the nicest bits

Great choice of starter bass there. Two things that will make a world of difference to your enjoyment of it. You might have to invest a little time and money, but all of it will be well spent.

1. Get some lessons. Can't stress this enough, it's absolutely essential.
2. Get it looked over by a reputable luthier who can set it up to make it as comfortable as possible for you to play.


Here's some info that might be relevant to your bass I found at that other place: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/boosey-hawkes-excelsior-or-golden-strad.440374/

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Bigjas' timestamp='1404299720' post='2491245']
The strings feel fine to me and if they are quality ones thenI am inclined to leave them on for now. The action feels very high, it measures approx 15 mm at the end of the fingerboard. Looking at previous threads on the subject I think I will lower it a bit to see if it makes it easier to play.

[/quote]

Ooft! 15mm is crazily high for steel strings. Just by way of comparison, I have my strings at 8mm on the G to 10.5mm on the E at the end of the fingerboard (with similar strings to yours), and some players will go lower than that. You'd be wise to take it to a luthier to have the setup looked at rather than going DIY, especially as you're new to the instrument.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm fairly competent at setting up basses but I have hit a wall with mine so any improvement will only come from a professional. I have got my e string down to about 10mm and the bridge is well centred other than that it needs pro work.

Unlike electric bass you might have a slope on the end of the finger board too so advice can only be taken so far compared to setting up a P bass for example, more knowledgeable folk here can explain the finger board curve.

[Marc S]

Hi Jas,

Welcome to the DB team indeed
Your wife is to be cherished as much as your bass
What a wonderful woman she must be

I bought my Boosey & Hawkes from the equally lovely Sarah of this very forum
Since then I have upgraded to a David Gage, also bought from a very nice fellow BC'er
I've lost count of what I've spent since joining Basschat

My wife Dawn didn't buy either of my DB's
but she loves having a bass in our lounge
When I'm out rehearsing or gigging, she says the corner of the room looks empty lol

A year or so back, I was in your position
I migrated from bass guitar (which I still love & play)
but the choice of strings is a whole new can of worms!
With bass guitar, it's generally round-wounds or flat

But with DB the choice is mind-blowing, IMHO
I started off with some dreadful strings on an EUB
I think these were the £20 Thomann cheapies
But don't go down that route.....

The 1st strings I bought were Innovation Silver Slaps
and I found the nylon material much easier on my fingers than the previous steel strings
They are broader gauge, but softer on the fingers

As Sarah says, you can go on Daf Lewis's Innovation stings trial
but I wasn't patient enough for that
Also, somewhere on here, Daf has posted a useful string guide
which is worth a look

These days, I've converted to Spirocore Weichs, courtesy of Greg - as they came on my new bass
I think it was worth persisting with these, for me anyway....
if you find the left hand "drags" a bit on the strings - maybe try applying some "Fret fast" for a while
until you get used to the strings?

Here is my first proper DB,
my lovely laminate Boosey & Hawkes Atria, which Sarah sold me
.... and I still haven't fully decided whether to sell
....I really shouldn't have so many basses in the house, but Dawn is getting used to me now

Good luck with your playing
but most of all - have fun with your DB
I've never looked back

[Marc S]

Me again!
I meant to say, keep your eye on the for sale section
in the Double Bass & EUB bit of the forum

Some people try out strings on here, and don't get on with them
so they sell them, usually for a reasonable amount
I've got some spare, hardly used strings for my DB for less than half the new cost

PS. On my EUB I got some S/H Nylon Wrap strings too
You might want to look at those
I think Rotosound do a set.....

Don't forget to let us know how you get on with the bass / strings etc

Edited July 2, 2014 by Marc S

[PaulKing]

I did a heap of research on these fine student basses a good few years ago. I'll see what I can remember off top of my head.

In the 1960s and possibly early 1970s, Boosey and Hawkes imported these basses to England from Czechoslovakia (unlike the Golden Strads which came from Hungary).
The Excelsior model was made at a well established, state run factory in Luby - a district well known for stringed instruments.
For most of that period, the brand 'Aria' was used by the factory for all state manufactured export instruments, so many B&H Excelsiors are also labelled Aria inside.
The state factory eventually went private, and renamed itself ... Strunal (which stands for something like STRinged instruments from Luby). The Strunal factory is of course still going ...
(I got most of this from the actual woman who used to run the export division in the 60s...)

The model numbering convention has been maintained by Strunal, who still make instruments that bear a passing resemblance to these earlier Luby basses. (The model numbers are also used by Thomann on the modern Strunal basses they sell).
50/4 is the Excelsior model I've seen most (there are dozens around) .. 50/2 almost certainly denotes a lower spec - probably tailpiece / fingerboard, maybe the ply-wood used - and maybe finish too.
The glossy finish on yours tells me it's from the latter part of this history so likely early 1970s. It's in pretty good cosmetic condition.

Owners of these basses all say the same - they have a gorgeous warm tone, they stand a load of beating, and are typically well made. It's a shame yours has had a neck break, but so long as the neck is at the right angle and isn't moving that isn't a problem now. If it isn't a nice fix, using hide glue etc, it'll affect the value, but it aint the end of the world.

Your string height is high - that may be because the neck has been re-fitted at slightly the wrong angle - too far forward. Not totally end of world, but wrong ... it means you'll always end up with a slightly low bridge, and it might affect the tone / volume by causing slightly lower tension .. but it'll be a bit easier to play.

These are great basses: as a low cost, great sounding starter that wont fall apart, as a robust and reliable live / touring bass ... I've had mine for years and still take it out where I don't want to risk a precious vintage bass.

Here's a couple of clips of mine in action at Glastonbury this year - completely acoustic

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtqxfm0fxUQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtqxfm0fxUQ[/url]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ5gOX3hmME"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ5gOX3hmME[/url]


Enjoy, don't rush to get a new one.
These things need ENERGY to create sound ... so play it HARD ... it is not a guitar! Use your WHOLE ARM, not your fingers. Unless you are Stanley Clarke.

[Bigjas]

Well what can I say, thank you very much Paul, that was a great deal of information that I have been unable to find. It would seem that I have a reasonably good Bass then? Its a shame that the neck has not been repared properly, they have not used hide glue and not made a pretty job of it, it is strong though. I will have a play around with the set up and reduce the action to make it easier to play. I really like your playing on your videos, I am a long way off getting to that standard, but will keep on practicing. Your right about playing it hard..................

Thanks again

Jas