Song Writing Credits - If you don't really know who wrote the songs...

[Sean]

Hopefully some Basschatters will be able to help...

My band is recording an album of songs that were originally written and recorded twenty-odd years ago but for various reasons the recordings never saw light of day however we do have bad Tape-to-MP3 copies of the songs to work from and a few of the Recording forum regulars here have heard them.

Anyway, the issue we have is that the only original band member is the singer and he can't remember who contributed what to any of the songs other than that he wrote the lyrics and came up with the melodies mostly. The band went through a few line ups back then with all members contributing to the writing to different degrees but no records were kept of writing credits.

Now the songs have been rehashed (in so me cases extensively) and brought up to date by the resurrected band, when we are ready to release the album, which is ten of these old songs that have been re-recorded, how should we go about the writing credits so as to do things right?

Say for instance someone picks up one of these songs and wants to use it, we need to know who gets the royalties. Feedback so far on the songs has been really positive, it was definitely a reason I joined the band and they definitely made recruiting good guitarist and drummer easy as detailed in other threads.

Any advice gratefully received....

Thanks
Sean

[stingrayPete1977]

I would say if nothing was kept copyrighted at the time you could do what you want with them, thats why you want to do it and copyright them now I presume just in case they hit the big time? If so you have kind of answered your own question I think? If the singer still speaks to the previous members then maybe they should discuss his new band recording their songs but legally I cant see you have an issue if you recorded them and made fame and fortune especially if the singer wrote the lyrics rather than me just nicking your ideas and releasing it for example?

It might be worth giving them a thank you mention in the sleeve but then does that leave the door a jar at a later date I dont know?

Edited July 2, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[r16ktx]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1404318502' post='2491575']
I would say if nothing was kept copyrighted at the time ...
[/quote]
So if there is decent money it will all end up with the lawyers :-) OTOH if the singer has a good claim on the lyrics and melody then he's got 90% there, the other 90% being the bass line of course

[Sean]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1404319597' post='2491588']

So if there is decent money it will all end up with the lawyers :-) OTOH if the singer has a good claim on the lyrics and melody then he's got 90% there, the other 90% being the bass line of course
[/quote]

I've have taken quite a bit of "artistic licence" with most of the bass lines but one is just so good I play it exactly as it was recorded in '92 :-)

Edited July 2, 2014 by Sean

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1404318502' post='2491575']
I would say if nothing was kept copyrighted at the time
[/quote]
maybe music is different from Art but if you right something don't you own it regardless of what you do (or part of it in a band). Proving it is another thing - but say you do something with these songs and some old bass player comes out the woodwork and can prove they wrote say the melody to the song... well then it's his melody.

There's a load of stuff of my old band on iTunes/Spotify which I had to sit down with them and discuss who wrote what of everything - not a fun process!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1404319789' post='2491592']
I've have taken quite a bit of "artistic licence" with most of the bass lines but one is just so good I play it exactly as it was recorded in '92 :-)
[/quote] I may be wrong but I think the main melody and the lyrics are the main parts covered by copyright- the bassline isn't considered as important - I think

[Sean]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1404320042' post='2491596']


There's a load of stuff of my old band on iTunes/Spotify which I had to sit down with them and discuss who wrote what of everything - not a fun process!
[/quote]

Imagine how little fun it'll be trying to sort out this stuff from 1989-1992! The singer has had the blessing of a couple of the old members that he still knows but I don't think they realise that we plan to record and promote the material. It'll probably come to nothing but it's causing some concern at the moment just in case we do get lucky with a song.

[Sean]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1404320104' post='2491597']
I may be wrong but I think the main melody and the lyrics are the main parts covered by copyright- the bassline isn't considered as important - I think
[/quote]

That's how I understand it :-)

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1404320042' post='2491596']
maybe music is different from Art but if you right something don't you own it regardless of what you do (or part of it in a band). Proving it is another thing - but say you do something with these songs and some old bass player comes out the woodwork and can prove they wrote say the melody to the song... well then it's his melody.

There's a load of stuff of my old band on iTunes/Spotify which I had to sit down with them and discuss who wrote what of everything - not a fun process!
[/quote]

Without some form of copyright how can he prove it though, if that were the case why would anyone bother to copyright it in the first place? Some form of demo with a printed label giving the band member names etc, dated and kept in an unopened envelope with a royal mail stamp would be absolute minimum required for anyone to even try and make a financial claim afaik. I have some stuff that is proper copyrighted under licence via the company that pressed the discs, it was free for a non commercial act at the time up to a maximum number of discs. That was before the days of youtube and mp3 players etc so I have no idea how you can protect stuff now, nor do the massive bands that are trying to stop it.

[Thurbs]

There is a difference between publishing and recording.

Publishers own royalties from the lyrics and melody. The publishing royalties are earnt when the song is done by the "origional band" and subsiquent covers (even pub bands). The rhythm is not concidered part of the publishing rights.

Recordings artists own royalties from a recording (doh!), and only the recording. Covers by other artists dont count (but do if they are sampled). Recording royalties can also include the sound engineer, producer and others contributing to the recording.

HTH.

[stingrayPete1977]

This is what we have registered as PAPA01/mcps
[font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][url="http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/LM%20FAQs.pdf"]http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/LM%20FAQs.pdf[/url][/size][/font][/size][/font]
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[font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"]"In music, copyright[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]

[font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"]begins automatically once a piece of music is created, and documented or recorded[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]

[font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"][font="Verdana"][size="2"](eg. on video, tape or CD or simply writing down the notation of a score)."[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]
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[SteveK]

[quote]Anyway, the issue we have is that the only original band member is the singer and he can't remember who contributed what to any of the songs other than that he wrote the lyrics and came up with the melodies mostly.[/quote]
Then, the singer is deemed to have written the songs, and should receive the credit. The only issue is that word "mostly", if by any chance the records were to sell in any significant number, then any ex members that felt that they had contributed to the writing process might have a legitimate claim. In band situations, records aren't usually kept regarding who wrote/contributed what - if it were ever to get to court, excluding any other possible evidence, it would be down to who was the more convincing in court. But, you would have to be selling records by the shed-full (in old terms ) to make it worthwhile anyone pursuing you through the courts.

[Sean]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1404429479' post='2492667']

Then, the singer is deemed to have written the songs, and should receive the credit. The only issue is that word "mostly", if by any chance the records were to sell in any significant number, then any ex members that felt that they had contributed to the writing process might have a legitimate claim. In band situations, records aren't usually kept regarding who wrote/contributed what - if it were ever to get to court, excluding any other possible evidence, it would be down to who was the more convincing in court. But, you would have to be selling records by the shed-full (in old terms ) to make it worthwhile anyone pursuing you through the courts.
[/quote]

Thanks, Steve. I think that's given us some direction. I'll let the singer know and get him to make the final decision.

[flyfisher]

Isn't proof the real issue here?. If someone can prove they wrote a lyric, melody, bassline, whatever, then they have the copyright of that work.

Sorting such things out from recollections and old tapes from 20 years ago might be tricky. Supposing someone simply claimed they wrote the entire song, how can it be proved/disproved?

I've always thought copyright is automatic and doesn't have to be registered as such.