Kevin Dean Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I love the sound of my rig Ashdown Neo & Barefaced S12T. We only play in pubs . But the rest of my band , electric drums & keyboards go through my PA , as a result we have a relatively quite on stage sound So I'm using my rig as more of a monitor & go the the PA as well . I'm getting more & more cheesed off with the sound that I get through the PA compared to my rig & I'm getting close to not going through the PA & turning my rig up as it can easily fill the places we play at with a great sound & telling the keyboard player ( who moans constantly ) to lump it . Or am I being unfair ? ps The drummer / singer is fine with it as he knows hes getting a great sound out front . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r16ktx Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Is it that the PA isn't good enough at handling the sound you want, or that the cab/head adds something, or is it to do with what you are hearing from where you play, or is it even that only you dislikes your PA sound (this is something I sometimes come up against, but when I complain I'm met with blank looks, shrugs, or "sounds great to me" so I'm wondering if cab sim + IEM might work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 What point in the signal chain are you DI'ing and what are you using to DI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 [quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1404472298' post='2492910'] I love the sound of my rig Ashdown Neo & Barefaced S12T. We only play in pubs . But the rest of my band , electric drums & keyboards go through my PA , as a result we have a relatively quite on stage sound So I'm using my rig as more of a monitor & go the the PA as well . I'm getting more & more cheesed off with the sound that I get through the PA compared to my rig & I'm getting close to not going through the PA & turning my rig up as it can easily fill the places we play at with a great sound & telling the keyboard player ( who moans constantly ) to lump it . Or am I being unfair ? ps The drummer / singer is fine with it as he knows hes getting a great sound out front . [/quote] I've been down this road before. Who's controlling your mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Mic the cab? Surely the sound you like onstage is a mix of the amp and cab working together so the DI sound will only be the amp and might not be as you like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Generally I would say that the overal sound of the band comes first, but if you are not happy with how YOU sound, then it is likely to affect your playing and potentially your relationship with your bandmates. For what it's worth, I've never put my bass through the PA for pub gigs, but obviously electronic instruments like drums and keys will need to unless they use their own backline. What do they think about the sounds they get through your PA? What kind of PA is it? Is it capable of pumping out decent bass at reasonable volumes? I would have thought that unlikely if it is the usual, portable kind of thing... Whatever your chosen solution, it needs to be sorted out as it is clearly bothering you. Edited July 4, 2014 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I'm going the other way, thinking of leaving my amp at home and just using the pa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I DI from the head post eq , I use a peavey xr1212 for the tops & a CS3000h powering the subs , I'm doing the PA . When I play with acoustic drum kits I can drive my rig & get a great sound . I'm going to try & just turn there monitors up a bit more . With the drums , bass , & keyboards going through the PA , even though it has a cross over the watts certainly get eaten up & the system is lacking in volume in some clubs . I've considered putting the barefaced cab more forward next to one of the subs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 In theory, with a relatively non-colouring cab like BF the sound through the PA should sound like that through the BF (providing you`re going post-eq to the PA, and it is set flat). I`ve gone through the PA in my old punk covers band, never that enamoured with the sound on its own, but in the mix it added to the presence nicely, without being too low or boomy. What`s worth remembering is that a great bassy and clear precise on-stage sound through amp/cab can often be indistinct mush out front - is that what`s happening here? If so, you may need to do what I found I had to, get an on-stage sound I`m not too keen on (middy/nasally), which translates really well out front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Can one of the band play your bass while you go out front and listen to the mix? I sometimes go through pay only but where we play has a big bass bin so I'm confident with the sound in the venue out front plus our singer has been a sound guy for yrs and does a good mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I normally use a wireless & do the sound check , I think what I'm saying is , that to get a sound I like I want to drive the cab a bit more , like when I play with an acoustic Drummer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Possible invest in a DI/preamp/amp sim kinda pedal? I've got 2/3 of these with a zoom ms60b and I'm delighted with the PA sound I get from it (and also how my other pedals react going through the PA). Overall band sound is much more important, The slight tonal differences we notice as bass players are hardly noticable at all when out in the crowd with loud music, so I'd say just ditch the amp, get a all in one DI/pedal thing and just enjoy yourself. IMO of course. I would also have thought that the amp would need to have a lot of volume if its to compete with the other instruments through the PA, and therefore making the onstage sound extremely uneven. I would have thought. Never played alongside an e-kit before. Edited July 5, 2014 by lefrash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Careful here or you'll end up like a guitard, Having to play at 11 to get your tone Seriously the band sound has to come before the bass sound so try miking the cab or running a DI box off the speaker lead. bands always sound better with low on-stge sound to my ears. The other thing you get when playing loud on stage is lots of feedback/resonance in your strings and this affects your sustain, and the way hammers, pulls and slides sound (probably ought to concede the same to our thin stringed friends here) and this affects the whole way you play. You could try a little compression/extra compression to get this effect too. Try and resist the temptation to go too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 [quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1404554612' post='2493650'] I normally use a wireless & do the sound check , I think what I'm saying is , that to get a sound I like I want to drive the cab a bit more , like when I play with an acoustic Drummer . [/quote] Sounds to me like some sort of "hair/grit" pedal is needed, unless you`ve got controllable drive on the amp which looking at the JJ, it doesn`t apear to have. Getting the drive from the cab I reckon you`d really need to hit the volume which may not work with the mix of the band. I had the same sort-of situation, wanted "breakup" in there. I had a Zoom B3 which did the job very well, but then bought a Tech21 VT DI and haven`t looked back. Now at gigs I DI from that, so the PA has control over FOH levels. I then have control of on-stage levels with my amp, so all seem happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I was just talking to the landlord of the last pub we played in & he said we sounded loud enough at sound check but when the punters came in we were one of the quietest bands he's had . It was just the Keyboard player complaining about the noise he wears headphones as it is & says he only wants to hear himself ? I haven't gigged with my new Ashdown yet , that's got a DI & a drive , eq, compresion & octave foot switch . I'm going try cranking everything up a bit more at the next one . Thanks for all your suggestions . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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