Motown on TV tonight.

[norvegicusbass]

Not a huge fan of Motown but it's nice to see James Jamerson footage ( albeit brief ) and Wilton Felder playing an iconic bassline.

[JapanAxe]

Channel?

[JapanAxe]

ITV - found it!

[JazzBassfreak]

Nice to see Jamerson on ITV and some great Motown Legends too. Back then you had to have something special to be on stage infront of people. ALOT different to nowadays, Nicki Minaj, Will.I.Am and all that type of crap!

[JapanAxe]

Hey! Don't diss my bro Will.I.Am!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404680892' post='2494717']
Nice to see Jamerson on ITV and some great Motown Legends too. Back then you had to have something special to be on stage infront of people. ALOT different to nowadays, Nicki Minaj, Will.I.Am and all that type of crap!
[/quote]
I can assure you there was plenty of 'crap' both on stage and on TV back then. It wasn't all good by any means but they are unlikely to show the bad bits nowadays.

[JazzBassfreak]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404681796' post='2494735']

I can assure you there was plenty of 'crap' both on stage and on TV back then. It wasn't all good by any means but they are unlikely to show the bad bits nowadays.
[/quote]

Point being whatever was crap back then is 1000 times better than what's put infront of people as "music" nowadays when it just relies on sex appeal to sell.

[JazzBassfreak]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1404681079' post='2494723']
Hey! Don't diss my bro Will.I.Am!
[/quote]

Talentless.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404682197' post='2494736']
Point being whatever was crap back then is 1000 times better than what's put infront of people as "music" nowadays when it just relies on sex appeal to sell.
[/quote]
I was a teenager in the late 60s and don't see it like that at all. How old were you in the 1960s?

[essexbasscat]

My bass was in my hands from about three minutes in and stayed there until the end of the programme. Sooo many great grooves, what a great way to spend a Sunday evening

[JazzBassfreak]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1404683007' post='2494753']
My bass was in my hands from about three minutes in and stayed there until the end of the programme. Sooo many great grooves, what a great way to spend a Sunday evening
[/quote]

Yeah me too!

[Diablo]

No 1 is a great song, but no mention of it being written by/for Smokey Robinson even though he was interviewed in other sections of the programme! How could they miss that?

[JazzBassfreak]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404682829' post='2494748']

I was a teenager in the late 60s and don't see it like that at all. How old were you in the 1960s?
[/quote]

Wasn't here, I was bought up on it though. From all I've listened to, it's better than the rubbish that's coming out these days. You a fan of the crap coming out today? That why your so touchy whenever you reply in a thread?

[Bassic]

It was great so much talent in all departments

Sky + deep purple live in Melbourne which was on at the same time. Bit of a departure from motown but well worth a watch. Great musicians an fair play Ritchie Blackmore is awesome.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404683122' post='2494756']
Wasn't here, I was bought up on it though. From all I've listened to, it's better than the rubbish that's coming out these days.
[/quote]
As you said yourself you weren't there so let me explain from someone who was there. For a start you wouldn't have seen most of the Motown footage on British TV back then. Most music programmes were middle of the road to appeal to older audiences which to a teenager at the time were appalling. A weekly ration of Ready Steady Go was about as good as it got for the pop crazed teenager in the mid 60s. There was no official national radio station playing pop music during the day until 1967. Until then you had to rely on a weak signal (if available at all) from a pirate ship anchored somewhere off the coast of England. When they produce these TV programmes looking back you have to remember that they put in all the good bits while the rubbish (of which there was plenty) is left on the cutting room floor.
I really enjoyed the 60s and i look back fondly on those days but they were far from perfect and that includes the music.

[JazzBassfreak]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404684797' post='2494773']

As you said yourself you weren't there so let me explain from someone who was there. For a start you wouldn't have seen most of the Motown footage on British TV back then. Most music programmes were middle of the road to appeal to older audiences which to a teenager at the time were appalling. A weekly ration of Ready Steady Go was about as good as it got for the pop crazed teenager in the mid 60s. There was no official national radio station playing pop music during the day until 1967. Until then you had to rely on a weak signal (if available at all) from a pirate ship anchored somewhere off the coast of England. When they produce these TV programmes looking back you have to remember that they put in all the good bits while the rubbish (of which there was plenty) is left on the cutting room floor.
I really enjoyed the 60s and i look back fondly on those days but they were far from perfect and that includes the music.
[/quote]

Believe it or not, I already know this, I've been bought up by my parents on Motown and Soul. However i like most music. Apart from the rubbish that is coming out these days that is labelled as "R'N'B" which subsequently is nothing like rhythm and blues and is ultimately rap. Unfortunately for the people who disagree, I'm allowed my own opinion. As is everyone else. Oh and it's not your place to dictate what I'm educated on and what I'm not after all, I'm only a personality behind random text over a forum about basses

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404685666' post='2494775']
Believe it or not, I already know this, I've been bought up by my parents on Motown and Soul. However i like most music. Apart from the rubbish that is coming out these days that is labelled as "R'N'B" which subsequently is nothing like rhythm and blues and is ultimately rap. Unfortunately for the people who disagree, I'm allowed my own opinion. As is everyone else. Oh and it's not your place to dictate what I'm educated on and what I'm not after all, I'm only a personality behind random text over a forum about basses
[/quote]
I'm glad that you do know this but there is nothing like having first hand knowledge. I actually think that most of the music today is bland and uninspiring but that may well be to do with my age. The again a lot of music in the 60s was bland and uninspiring. Of course every one has their own opinion which is great I have been reading recently about Horatio Nelson and the Navy at the time and from that i can certainly get a good idea of what it was like from books and tv programmes but of course however much you read there is no substitute for being there.

Edited July 6, 2014 by BetaFunk

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1404679973' post='2494704']
Not a huge fan of Motown but it's nice to see James Jamerson footage ( albeit brief ) and Wilton Felder playing an iconic bassline.
[/quote]
It was really great footage. It's hard to believe now but at the time that footage was shot i doubt if many people in the UK had heard of James Jamerson. When Marvin Gaye's What's Goin' On was released only the first copies had an insert with the musicians listed. Sidemen and session musicians just weren't seen as that important back then.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404685666' post='2494775']


Believe it or not, I already know this, I've been bought up by my parents on Motown and Soul. However i like most music. Apart from the rubbish that is coming out these days that is labelled as "R'N'B" which subsequently is nothing like rhythm and blues and is ultimately rap. Unfortunately for the people who disagree, I'm allowed my own opinion. As is everyone else. Oh and it's not your place to dictate what I'm educated on and what I'm not after all, I'm only a personality behind random text over a forum about basses
[/quote]

You would have been hard pressed to hear much Motown and Soul back then other than the big hit singles like Baby Love etc. My recollection of tele programmes other than Ready Steady Go, Top of the Pops and Thank Your Lucky Stars was of Nina and Frederick, Val Doonican and the like - and The Spinners (not the Detroit ones). Totally MoR stuff!!

You would also have been hard pressed to hear any of the bass parts on pop music back them also as it was largely in mono played through very low fi transistor radio, and not even broadcast in FM, or maybe listened to by people congregated around Dansette portable record players with slightly better, but still pretty poor reproduction. Although stereo records were available in the 60s most people didn't have stereo audio equipment until the 70s, which began a quest for ever better sound quality.

The early/mid 60s was very much an era of tinny sounding music with particularly tinny sounding guitars until the Hendix/Page/Lee/Green era of guitarists. Motown had exciting bass playing (this is how I recalled it as a lover of what was called 'progressive' music at the time - most of my mates turned their noses up at Motown as mere pop music - incomparable with the likes of Floyd, Cream, Fleetwood Mac, the Nice etc - and Motown tended to have a skinhead audience along with Reggae - Motown Chartbusters Vol 3 was a particular favourite at the end of the 60s... There was also a Caribbean audience - but skinheads were totally associated with street violence so liking Motown was not an option for most hippyish music lovers of that time) .

Things were no doubt different in the US, but even there Motown would not have got played on mainstream radio in the mid 60s because the country had racial segregation which pervaded its music industry/radio also.

My children grew up listening to a wide range of rock, soul and funk but had the advantage of being able to hear all of it in stereo and the earlier stuff often remastered - totally different from how it was in the 60s.

I love all these programmes about Motown - Jamerson, Babbitt and Felder are great as is the whole Funk Brothers orchestra - and no one knew about them until comparatively recently.

[lowdown]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1404692735' post='2494810']


You would have been hard pressed to hear much Motown and Soul back then other than the big hit singles like Baby Love etc. My recollection of tele programmes other than Ready Steady Go, Top of the Pops and Thank Your Lucky Stars was of Nina and Frederick, Val Doonican and the like - and The Spinners (not the Detroit ones). Totally MoR

The early/mid 60s was very much an era of tinny sounding music with particularly tinny sounding guitars until the Hendix/Page/Lee/Green era of guitarists. Motown had exciting bass playing (this is how I recalled it as a lover of what was called 'progressive' music at the time - most of my mates turned their noses up at Motown as mere pop music - incomparable with the likes of Floyd, Cream, Fleetwood Mac, the Nice etc - and Motown tended to have a skinhead audience along with Reggae - Motown Chartbusters Vol 3 was a particular favourite at the end of the 60s... There was also a Caribbean audience - but skinheads were totally associated with street violence so liking Motown was not an option for most hippyish music lovers of that time) .

Things were no doubt different in the US, but even there Motown would not have got played on mainstream radio in the mid 60s because the country had racial segregation which pervaded its music industry/radio also.
[/quote]

Pretty good summing up really.
The music was there, but you had to hunt it down.
Specialised Coffee bars/ clubs etc were the real places to get a good diet of hip music.
TV and Radio really was force fed LIGHT entertainment.

My parents would regularly visit certain record shops
up in the West End or West London to get all the latest incoming American offerings.
So for me in my teenage years (60's) it was all Jazz and Motown in the house,
any (what was considered cool) Rock music would be listened to around friends houses
when their mums and dads were out.

[JTUK]

Sky Arts had a Deep Purple theme most of the night so I was torn between the two.
Unfortunately Ritchie Blackmore was atrocious for the most part on the 1984 line-up but much better on the
later tours. I'm surprised they gave him a second chance tbh... but anyway, that won out my evenings choices.

I figured I'd have more chance they'd run the Motown program before the DP films..

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1404721482' post='2494906']
Sky Arts had a Deep Purple theme most of the night so I was torn between the two.
Unfortunately Ritchie Blackmore was atrocious for the most part on the 1984 line-up but much better on the
later tours. I'm surprised they gave him a second chance tbh... but anyway, that won out my evenings choices.

I figured I'd have more chance they'd run the Motown program before the DP films..
[/quote]

Damn! I didnt know of the alternative choice. Deep Purple trounces Motown IMO if not others.

[JTUK]

Hopefully both programs will tget another showing. Sometimes Sjy Arts gets a theme going and repeats it quite a bit.
Other times, it is a one off and disappears without a trace.

Deep Purple were my formative years at one point so that piquied my interest and as much as Blackmore was a star
in a very decent line-up... he was qute awful on the video. Not sure what you'd put it down to... I think he had
just seen what Van Halen could do ...but it wasn't working

The sidemen of Motown got no recognition at the time, and people are only just know familiar with Muscle Shoals and the Funk Bros..et all...
but were oblivious at the time.
The is a decent program about Fame doing the rounds and that is worth seeing. You get to see and hear Duane Allman as a sideman
when he could get a gig in L.A.. all sorts of good stuff.
Loving Sky Arts for little things like this.

[UglyDog]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1404729371' post='2495067']
Hopefully both programs will tget another showing. Sometimes Sky Arts gets an [i]Andre Rieu[/i] theme going and repeats it [s]quite a bit[/s] [i]over and over and over again ad nauseum until you want to ram the smug Dutchie's fiddle sideways up his tan track[/i].
Other times, it is a one off and disappears without a trace.
[/quote]
Fixed. Although in fairness, they do have some absolute gems on from time to time.

[Dingus]

Regarding the debate about how Motown was perceived at the actual time of its' heyday in the 1960's and early 1970's, if you look back at documents of the time like music journalism and things that other musicians said in interviews, more often than not the perception of Motown was that it was rather formulaic and trite throwaway pop music. That view was quite wrong, of course, as we all now realize, but, as so often happens, at the time many people were blind to the great artistry and superb musicianship evident on so many of those records.

The critical and popular renaissance that Motown has enjoyed is similar to that of many bands from the 1970's, like ABBA , for example. At the height of their popularity they were derided by "serious" music fans and critics alike as trashy throwaway pop music, but nowadays they are revered by the very same people who hated them in those days as being great songsmiths and making timeless music of genuine quality . So much is a product of retrospect . Even bands like Led Zeppelin, despite selling a lot of records back in the 1970's, were never as widely celebrated or appreciated as they are now over thirty-odd years after their demiise. At the time, they were a cult act ( although it was a pretty big cult) .

It is very true to say that retrospection is particularly selective, and we only tend to remember and revisit the best music from bygone eras, when in fact there was plenty of dross ( I remember the 1970's vividly, and believe me, there was more dross than anything else, especially on T.V, and yet nowadays many see those years as the Golden Age of comedy and drama on British television. It wasn't. ) However, that is not to say that every era is necessarily equal in value or in quality when it comes to music. It may well be that in the post-Millennium era, pop music just isn't important in the same way and that the artistic quality of the records is declining as a result. Art forms[i] do[/i] die over time, and why should song-based popular music be exempt from that?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Dingus