It Certainly Pays to Shop Around !

[ambient]

I'm interested in an Aguilar Tone hammer 350.

Ebay - £529 - [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/261493615446?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108"]http://www.ebay.co.u...f13=80&ff14=108[/url]

Woodbrass - £443.80 - [url="http://www.woodbrass.com/en/ampli-basse-tete-aguilar-tone-hammer-350-p153933-af833-gbp.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw3IieBRDl1oG0gr_PweoBEiQAwGHVwwiScBAHIvGdCLp6F25tfRzBZjgxY3fRJv-K_bkpgasaAsfe8P8HAQ"]http://www.woodbrass...pgasaAsfe8P8HAQ[/url] - what a strange price !

Bass gear - £449 - [url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/product/aguilar-tone-hammer-350/"]http://www.bassgear....one-hammer-350/[/url] a shame because I really like this shop.

Bass direct - £399 - [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Aguilar_Amplification.html"]http://www.bassdirec...lification.html[/url]

Thomann - £335 - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/aguilar_tone_hammer_350.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._hammer_350.htm[/url] that includes shipping.

What a range of prices, almost £200 !

Edited July 14, 2014 by ambient

[Cameronj279]

Must resist.

[skidder652003]

Thomann are fab aren't they?

Edited July 14, 2014 by skidder652003

[crez5150]

Thomann are in a pricing war at present with another (non-uk) on line store and pricing is at an all time low with them on certain products. Although end users will think this is great.... its not good for the industry.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1405321873' post='2500633']
Although end users will think this is great.... its not good for the industry.
[/quote]

Not sure why.

Unless Thomann are selling at a loss, they must be buying these from Aguilar at less than £335 each. Assuming that a mark-up of 20% for overhead & profit is reasonable, then they should sell at about £400. If 20% is too tight, then a 30% mark-up would give you £440-ish.

That would imply that the eBay price (£529) is a rip-off, that Woodbrass & BassGear are looking for a relatively high profit margin on a piece of high-end (and slow-moving) stock), and Bass Direct for a rather lower one.

Sounds like a market to me.

If Tesco decide to (temporarily) sell baked beans at 10p per can less than Sainsburys and Aldi, no one suggests that this will be bad for the industry.

[CamdenRob]

Aren't woodbrass in france? The price is probably converted from a Euro price hence it looks a bit odd.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1405324354' post='2500656']
Not sure why.

Unless Thomann are selling at a loss, they must be buying these from Aguilar at less than £335 each. Assuming that a mark-up of 20% for overhead & profit is reasonable, then they should sell at about £400. If 20% is too tight, then a 30% mark-up would give you £440-ish.

That would imply that the eBay price (£529) is a rip-off, that Woodbrass & BassGear are looking for a relatively high profit margin on a piece of high-end (and slow-moving) stock), and Bass Direct for a rather lower one.

Sounds like a market to me.

If Tesco decide to (temporarily) sell baked beans at 10p per can less than Sainsburys and Aldi, no one suggests that this will be bad for the industry.
[/quote]

In real terms stores need to make around 23-25% min. 15-20% is at the thin end of the wedge. Not sure what the specified RRP is on the tone hammer but looks to be around £499 ex vat. Depending on what the discount to trade is lets go with an average Mi discount of 40%.
That makes the cost into a uk dealer of say around £299.40 ex vat. Add the VAT and and you can see why those stores cannot compete.
Now there may be an extra discount for quantity deal that may leverage some extra discount but your local store that can only take say a couple of pieces at a time won't be eligible for that.

Of course there are dealers that are prepared to make small % and hope to sell more units in order to maximise revenue. It's always good for the punters... not so good for the stores. I always see people bitching on here that their local store doesn't stock 'X' brand and this is partly why. Also we always see people bitching about the likes of Tesco/Asda etc because of the impact it has on the local in town shops. Don't like it, don't support it.

Unfortunately price is key with end users and they don't give a sh*t about what happens to the local store.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1405326740' post='2500686']
Unfortunately price is key with end users and they don't give a sh*t about what happens to the local store.
[/quote]

True. And why should they?

[r16ktx]

Been using thomann pretty exclusively for something like 10 years now as their prices have been consistantly better, cs very good and range of products much larger in comparison to others, and their website is much much better. Would hate to add up how much I've spent in that time, but not as much as I'd hate the wife to do the adding up!

[molan]

Yep - there's a little price war on over in Europe at the moment.

Definitely good news for consumers but not for UK shops and, potentially, not for UK consumers.

There are three overseas retailers selling either at, or below, the UK trade price on various lines on the moment.

The reason this might not be good for consumers is that UK dealers will simply stop stocking those lines. No-one in their right mind is going to order new stock that makes zero profit so those brands will just get de-listed over here and consumers won't be able to go into a store and try them out.

There's still the option to buy from an overseas retailer and use the 7 day returns policy to try something out but, as a consumer, I'd much rather go to a store and try four or five brands against each other.

[Happy Jack]

Reverting to the OP, equally relevant is the fact that there is too much competition, too many over-priced devices on the market all claiming to do much the same thing.

I have no problem with this at all, in fact I love it. But none of these businesses has a God-given right to remain profitable and successful ... capitalism is evolution in action.

I couldn't tell you how many high-end bass pre-amps and pre-amp pedals there are on the market right now, but I bet if half of them left the market right now very few people would notice, and very few people would find it life-changing.

If Thomann can sell this particular item very cheaply, for whatever reason and for whatever purpose, then as a consumer I am delighted.

In the unlikely event that this leads to a manufacturer or supplier leaving the market, there'll be another one along in a minute.

Harsh, but true.

[r16ktx]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1405335783' post='2500846']
Reverting to the OP, equally relevant is the fact that there is too much competition, too many over-priced devices on the market all claiming to do much the same thing.

I have no problem with this at all, in fact I love it. But none of these businesses has a God-given right to remain profitable and successful ... capitalism is evolution in action.

I couldn't tell you how many high-end bass pre-amps and pre-amp pedals there are on the market right now, but I bet if half of them left the market right now very few people would notice, and very few people would find it life-changing.

If Thomann can sell this particular item very cheaply, for whatever reason and for whatever purpose, then as a consumer I am delighted.

In the unlikely event that this leads to a manufacturer or supplier leaving the market, there'll be another one along in a minute.

Harsh, but true.
[/quote]
I certainly agree, apart from; isn't it the (hayekian) market that is evolution in action, where capitalism is wealth in motion?

[molan]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1405294505' post='2500573']
I'm interested in an Aguilar Tone hammer 350.

Ebay - £529 - [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/261493615446?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108"]http://www.ebay.co.u...f13=80&ff14=108[/url]

Woodbrass - £443.80 - [url="http://www.woodbrass.com/en/ampli-basse-tete-aguilar-tone-hammer-350-p153933-af833-gbp.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw3IieBRDl1oG0gr_PweoBEiQAwGHVwwiScBAHIvGdCLp6F25tfRzBZjgxY3fRJv-K_bkpgasaAsfe8P8HAQ"]http://www.woodbrass...pgasaAsfe8P8HAQ[/url] - what a strange price !

Bass gear - £449 - [url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/product/aguilar-tone-hammer-350/"]http://www.bassgear....one-hammer-350/[/url] a shame because I really like this shop.

Bass direct - £399 - [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Aguilar_Amplification.html"]http://www.bassdirec...lification.html[/url]

Thomann - £335 - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/aguilar_tone_hammer_350.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._hammer_350.htm[/url] that includes shipping.

What a range of prices, almost £200 !


[/quote]

You may need to make your pricing dynamic - my guess is that prices are falling daily on some stuff at the moment . . .

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1405335783' post='2500846']
...capitalism is evolution in action.
[/quote]

It sure is, and it's heading for extinction. Along with the rest of us.

[kerley]

This is more evolution of shopping than capitalism as such. Shops that sell a small amount of what is available are not going to last much longer. 20 years ago you wouldn't have been contemplating buying bass guitar gear from a warehouse supplier in Germany yet now it is so easy to find and buy the stuff why wouldn't you.

Example - I fancy some new flatwound strings. Using the internet I have a selection of 20+ brands that I can choose from and get the best price for each one. Going to my local shop (which is quite a comprehensive one) I can choose from 2 sets (both of which cost more than online and neither are what I actually want).
I would never expect a shop to carry all 20+ brands but that doesn't help me as the consumer. All local shops are good for is the less discerning who would just buy whatever they stocked at whatever price. The forward looking business owner would have already seen this coming and moved on while others will drown.

Edited July 14, 2014 by kerley

[r16ktx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405336457' post='2500853']
It sure is, and it's heading for extinction. Along with the rest of us.
[/quote]
I shouldn't believe everything you read in the Guardian :-D

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1405338284' post='2500884']
This is more evolution of shopping than capitalism as such. Shops that sell a small amount of what is available are not going to last much longer. 20 years ago you wouldn't have been contemplating buying bass guitar gear from a warehouse supplier in Germany yet now it is so easy to find and buy the stuff why wouldn't you.
[/quote]
This chimes with a popular view in the late 90's about the effect of the internet on commerce; "If a shop doesn't have an on-line presence within 10 years it will disappear" I thought at the time this was a little hopeful, but adding 10 years to develop that on-line presence then I guess those commentators were about spot on

[Owen]

Who are Thomann fighting with?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1405324354' post='2500656']
Not sure why.

Unless Thomann are selling at a loss, they must be buying these from Aguilar at less than £335 each. Assuming that a mark-up of 20% for overhead & profit is reasonable, then they should sell at about £400. If 20% is too tight, then a 30% mark-up would give you £440-ish.

That would imply that the eBay price (£529) is a rip-off, that Woodbrass & BassGear are looking for a relatively high profit margin on a piece of high-end (and slow-moving) stock), and Bass Direct for a rather lower one.

Sounds like a market to me.

If Tesco decide to (temporarily) sell baked beans at 10p per can less than Sainsburys and Aldi, no one suggests that this will be bad for the industry.
[/quote]

Good post.

If it's such a 'small world' then in my eyes it shouldn't matter if we as UK consumers buy from Europe.

If it is cheaper, then we get from Europe, and we save money. We aren't here to assist UK stores make a profit, although I will happily prefer to buy from a specialist in the UK if they match the price.

Money is money at the end of the day. From what I understand, Aguilar now have a UK middleman setup who essentially store the items and deal with warranties. Another person making a profit for a person in the UK to pay.

Whether that is good or bad is upto the consumer.

The TH500 is also cheap at £484.00.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Musicman20

[discreet]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1405339586' post='2500906']
I shouldn't believe everything you read in the Guardian...
[/quote]

I'm sure you don't. Nor do I. But the endless growth which capitalism demands cannot be sustained on a planet with finite resources. That's not a political statement, it's just a fact. If profit continues to be made at the cost of the environment - you know, where we live - then we're in deep do-do.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405342438' post='2500952']
I'm sure you don't. Nor do I. But the endless growth which capitalism demands cannot be sustained on a planet with finite resources. That's not a political statement, it's just a fact. If profit continues to be made at the cost of the environment - you know, where we live - then we're in deep do-do.
[/quote]

True, but there is very little we can do about it.

[crez5150]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405342438' post='2500952']
I'm sure you don't. Nor do I. But the endless growth which capitalism demands cannot be sustained on a planet with finite resources. That's not a political statement, it's just a fact. If profit continues to be made at the cost of the environment - you know, where we live - then we're in deep do-do.
[/quote]

Problem is... as stated here, as long as the consumer gets what they want at the cheapest cost..... the environment can do one...

[Musicman20]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1405342743' post='2500958']
Problem is... as stated here, as long as the consumer gets what they want at the cheapest cost..... the environment can do one...
[/quote]

Well, yes, and no, because ultimately, one basschatter buying an Aguilar TH350 from Europe (which we are supposed to be proudly part of) makes zero difference to the environment. In fact, it probably means less shipping in trucks/etc!

Just my thoughts.

[Lozz196]

It is sad and it does affect the shops but hey, we consumers only have so much money don`t we? The strings I use are £5 more in my local shop than if I buy them on-line, and that`s including the postage. £21.99 as oppose to £16.99 delivered. Doesn`t seem much but over a year, with a new set each month that`s the equivalent of nearly 4 sets free I`m getting if I buy on-line. I`d like to support my local shop but then I also like to support myself just that little bit more. Capatilism, possibly, harsh, certainly, reality, definitely.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1405342941' post='2500961']
It is sad and it does affect the shops but hey, we consumers only have so much money don`t we? The strings I use are £5 more in my local shop than if I buy them on-line, and that`s including the postage. £21.99 as oppose to £16.99 delivered. Doesn`t seem much but over a year, with a new set each month that`s the equivalent of nearly 4 sets free I`m getting if I buy on-line. I`d like to support my local shop but then I also like to support myself just that little bit more. Capatilism, possibly, harsh, certainly, reality, definitely.
[/quote]

It is reality, and the rising costs of daily living and the high cost of fuel/transport means we have to save where we can. I think most UK consumers are much more prudent nowadays.

There is NOTHING we can do...this will just become the 'norm' and something else more major will happen.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1405342939' post='2500960']
Well, yes, and no, because ultimately, one basschatter buying an Aguilar TH350 from Europe (which we are supposed to be proudly part of) makes zero difference to the environment. In fact, it probably means less shipping in trucks/etc!

Just my thoughts.
[/quote]

Yes but it's not just one person buying from this type of set up is it. Thomann despatch 8000 packages a day... goes up to around 12000 around xmas. Imagine what Amazon must be like....