Musician's Wars

[Faithless]

I've simply checked Steve's site, and [url="http://www.stevebaileybass.com/"]THAT's[/url], what I've found out there.

And the other part is in Victor Wooten's [url="http://www.victorwooten.com/"]site[/url].



But, I just wanted to ask - what the [i]funk[/i] Mr. Berlin wanted to say?


All I know about him, that he played with Jaco, and that his [Jeff's] music sucks. In my personal opinion, of course...

Edited July 23, 2008 by Faithless

[Jase]

Awww, I like old Jeff, he's a great player.

[Dread Bass]

he continues to show that he is a prick tho i just cant be bothered with him and his "music" is some of the worst i have ever heard.

[xilddx]

I agree in many ways with Jeff Berlin, who is a great player. I think teaching crap like warm up is a waste of money and time. I could tell the planet that for f*** all. Stretch your fingers a little and don't try to be Victor Wooten in the first 30 seconds. Having said that, according to Zappa, JB was one of a greedy bunch of mechanics, so he fired JB and Vinnie C and canceled the tour. Don't blame him.

[Jase]

Sounds like we're going to have our very own war right here

[Oscar South]

My favourate Jeff Berlin moment was in that bass clinic argument he had with Steve Bailey, Steve was criticising him on not being able to play 6 string or fretless (I think Jeff had said something that that made that point seem less pointless that it does in this context) and Jeff said "pass me your fretless", he did.. Berlin played 3 notes or something, realised he was hopeless and that it was a lost cause, made some excuses and meekly passed it back .

Was a while ago I saw it, may have got some facts mixed up but thats what I remember.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Oscar South

[Jase]

[quote name='silddx' post='246491' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:26 PM']I agree in many ways with Jeff Berlin, who is a great player. I think teaching crap like warm up is a waste of money and time. I could tell the planet that for f*** all. Stretch your fingers a little and don't try to be Victor Wooten in the first 30 seconds. Having said that, according to Zappa, JB was one of a greedy bunch of mechanics, so he fired JB and Vinnie C and canceled the tour. Don't blame him.[/quote]

Zappa fired a whole band at one time.......doesn't mean a thing.

[Jase]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='246493' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:29 PM']My favourate Jeff Berlin moment was in that bass clinic argument he had with Steve Bailey, Steve was criticising him on not being able to play 6 string or fretless (I think Jeff had said something that that made that point seem less pointless that it does in this context) and Jeff said "pass me your fretless", he did.. Berlin played 3 notes or something, realised he was hopeless and that it was a lost cause, made some excuses and meekly passed it back .

Was a while ago I saw it, may have got some facts mixed up but thats what I remember.[/quote]

He did ok....and he said "gimmie a day" which I'm sure he'd be able to cut it by then.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Jase' post='246494' date='Jul 23 2008, 11:30 PM']Zappa fired a whole band at one time.......doesn't mean a thing.[/quote]
If you're refering to 'the best band you never heard' tour he didn't strictly sack them.
I had a conversation with Ike Willis about it.

Edited July 23, 2008 by jakesbass

[Jase]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246498' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:36 PM']If you're refering to 'the best band you never heard' tour he didn't strictly sack them.
I had a conversation with Ike Willis about it.[/quote]

Did they walk then because of Scott Thunes??

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Jase' post='246505' date='Jul 23 2008, 11:40 PM']Did they walk then because of Scott Thunes??[/quote]
Pretty much, it was described to me as the band 'Imploded'
I got to see them though, it was a monumental gig.
I later then toured and recorded with Ike and Bobby Martin. Seperately.

Edit
Sorry this is OT

Jeff Berlin is a great player, but I wouldn't buy his albums or invite him for tea.

Edited July 23, 2008 by jakesbass

[3V17C]

hmmm while Jeff Berlin does always come across as a bit of a tool (and his version of [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jw6oOXuq10"]'tears in heaven' [/url]is one of the worst, misguided interpretations of any song ever, turning it into a twee, mario theme-esque twiddle as he does!) i think he does have [i]some[/i] valid points - especially the two hands together thing.

peace

c

Edited July 23, 2008 by 3V17C

[Jase]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246507' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:43 PM']Pretty much, it was described to me as the band 'Imploded'
I got to see them though, it was a monumental gig.
I later then toured and recorded with Ike and Bobby Martin. Seperately.[/quote]

Ahh, right. what great musicians those guys are!

Edit: Good point it's OT. Sorry.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Jase

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246507' date='Jul 23 2008, 11:43 PM']Pretty much, it was described to me as the band 'Imploded'
I got to see them though, it was a monumental gig.
I later then toured and recorded with Ike and Bobby Martin. Seperately.

Edit
Sorry this is OT

Jeff Berlin is a great player, but I wouldn't buy his albums or invite him for tea.[/quote]

I bow to your WAAAAAAAAAAY superior knowledge, man!

Really loving "no more playing" [EDIT and the other songs and your awesome bass] right now having checked your profile and thence to your myspace. Gorgeous voice and tunes. Who's the singer?

Sorry OT too.

Edited July 23, 2008 by silddx

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='silddx' post='246515' date='Jul 23 2008, 11:54 PM']Really loving "no more playing" [EDIT and the other songs and your awesome bass] right now having checked your profile and thence to your myspace. Gorgeous voice and tunes. Who's the singer?[/quote]

Thanks Bro.. one take! never heard the track before the studio day (Guy Chambers Studio) I played all percussion on it too...


It's a girl called, Yamit Mamo. She rocks, I am her bass player and MD. We should be releasing some stuff soon and a hoped for tour to follow. I will of course let everyone here know, and I mean everyone.

Edited July 23, 2008 by jakesbass

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246518' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:01 AM']Thanks Bro
It's a girl called, Yamit Mamo. She rocks, I am her bass player and MD. We should be releasing some stuff soon and a hoped for tour to follow. I will of course let everyone here know, and I mean everyone.[/quote]

For god's sake please do, I don't often hear voices as beautiful as that. The tunes are exceptionally cool!! I don't usually like sounds like this at all, and yet I appear to have a sweat on, along with a seriously increased heart rate! It's not just you, or the voice, the drums, the guitar, brass, or the tunes either, that sh*t is [b]seriously [/b]synergystic

You must be on cloud nine, mate!

Edited July 23, 2008 by silddx

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246518' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:01 AM']Thanks Bro.. one take! never heard the track before the studio day (Guy Chambers Studio) I played all percussion on it too...[/quote]

You got that soul.

[Buzz]

JB's comments did make sense to my mind at least. He advocates learning music over just exercises as the way to improve your playing.

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246518' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:01 AM']Thanks Bro.. one take! never heard the track before the studio day (Guy Chambers Studio) I played all percussion on it too...


It's a girl called, Yamit Mamo. She rocks, I am her bass player and MD. We should be releasing some stuff soon and a hoped for tour to follow. I will of course let everyone here know, and I mean everyone.[/quote]

The only time I saw Zap was at Wembley on the Broadway The Hard Way tour. A most fabulous evening of pure magic. I saw Dweezil and Ahmet at the Marquee (with Scott Thunes, who is a huge hero of mine). I met Dweezil and Nuno Bettencourt after but they seemed the most miserable people I've ever met, shame. They signed my ticket though.

End of OT Zone.

Edited July 23, 2008 by silddx

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Buzz' post='246532' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:20 AM']JB's comments did make sense to my mind at least. He advocates learning music over just exercises as the way to improve your playing.[/quote]
There is merit in that argument and he obviously feels strongly enough to voice his opinions very publicly, I think his means, ie employing personal attack display intolerance and arrogance. Sadly for him I think that comes through in his playing/music making it for me appreciable but barely enjoyable.
Victor Wooten by contrast seems quite humble and sounds as such. I don't enjoy everything that he does but he does have a phenomenal trance like groove that I find utterly irresistible.

Edited July 23, 2008 by jakesbass

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='silddx' post='246534' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:21 AM']The only time I saw Zap was at Wembley on the Broadway The Hard Way tour. A most fabulous evening of pure magic. I saw Dweezil and Ahmet at the Marquee (with Scott Thunes, who is a huge hero of mine). I met Dweezil and Nuno Bettencourt after but they seemed the most miserable people I've ever met, shame. They signed my ticket though.

End of OT Zone.[/quote]

Sorry to keep the OT zone alive but I had to add, I had a brief affair with an old girlfriend of Scott Thunes' LMAO it gets so incestuous. I have appreciated more than his bass playing.

[7string]

I think that in some ways, the bass guitar can be a difficult instrument to learn.

If you learn a "classical" instrument, there's a set way of holding the instrument, a set way to learn, an accent on learning to read music well and a set of graded examinations. The problem is that there is no set way to teach bass guitar. Everyone holds it differently, everyone has a different technique and some players just don't have the need to read music. They'll either learn by ear or by playing along with someone else.

There's a set way of learning music theory, but even then a player may still not have the need to read or write music.

I can understand Jeff Berlin's appeal to players to learn to read and write music and how he's sees this as [b]the[/b] way for a player to learn. But that horse has long since bolted and there are too many bassists who don't want to go down that road. It's for these people that all the bass DVDs, camps, books and so on are aimed at.

Jeff must know by now that there is no way that suddenly huge numbers of bassists are going to go back to school and learn to read & write music, especially when they don't see they have a need to. However, they may want to learn the latest techniques and so they go and buy the material to give them that information. Jeff clearly doesn't see validity in such material.

I learned my music theory through playing violin for 10 years or so, but I've also bought books and DVDs of bass lessons. So which is best? Personally, my opinion is that there's a balance between knowing your theory and taking techniques from any place you can find. In 18 years of playing bass, I have only had to read music once and that was on a residential Open University course where I played some classical double bass in a concert (then took the bass to the bar and played as part of the house band for an evening!).

If bassists want to learn more about reading/writing music then it's pretty easy to find out how it's done, but it should definately not be compulsory (as Jeff Berlin suggests). Only individual players can decide on the worth of information they can get from DVDs, camps and so on, but I think they have toreally think of the value of that information before they part with their hard-earned cash. Remember, there's no refunds available if you've bought material which is full of waffle and doesn't give you what you expected.....

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='246539' date='Jul 24 2008, 12:28 AM']Sorry to keep the OT zone alive but I had to add, I had a brief affair with an old girlfriend of Scott Thunes' LMAO it gets so incestuous. I have appreciated more than his bass playing. [/quote]




Must be the strong fingers that attract certain ladies to bass players, mine's the same, loves bass players.

[bass_ferret]

Cant be arsed. What difference will this make to how I play bass with the ferrets? f*** all. Be yourself!

[Jase]

Well, I for one, really wish I had started to read the same time I started playing bass, it would be great to understand what I'm playing or where it comes from or what it's called.