THE ULTIMATE BASS ??

[Reversebird]

Been thinking for a few years now about my ultimate bass. With sooo many artist basses around I wondered what I would build if Fender ever approached me to build a signature bass.

So I had a think and wrote to Fender with my ideas, the reply is at the bottom from those very nice people at Fender UK.

Dear Fender

Leo Fender was a great innovator of guitars, especially basses and over the 65 years of Precision bass there have been a few changes but everybody is still looking for the holy grail of basses. A bass that does everything and is the bass for every man (women). I also love Jim Burns innovations, a man I really admire for his thinking outside the box in the early years of the guitar and bass. I would like to see if it was possible to build a bass that uses Leo's great bodies and Jim's electrical genius.

I have been playing bass for around 25 years now and I have tried every bass going from big makers to small, expensive basses to some modern cheap basses. My problem is I haven't found a bass that well "covers all the bases" excuse the pun.
I think these following basses are the basis for all others body shape wise and pickup arrangement wise.
Fender Precision one split single coils middle passive
Fender Jazz two single coils bridge and middle passive
Musicman Stingray humbucker bridge active
Gibson SG two humbuckers neck and bridge passive
Gibson Thunderbird two humbuckers bridge and middle passive
Rickenbacker 4000 series two single coils neck and bridge passive
Burns Bison three single coils neck bridge middle
Hofner Violin bass two humbuckers bridge and neck passive
Ibanez/yamaha/warwick etc two soap bar humbuckers bridge and middle active

I want a bass that does all of the above, I play in covers bands so although I get
by one bass does not suit all (yes you can use pedals etc) I like really powerful passive pickups like the Seymour Duncan Quarterpounders in a Precision, the tone knob actually works but I love the boost and cut you get across the musical spectrum from an active bass like the three EQ Musicman Stingray.

Is it possible to have a bass with:
Three passive "super hot" soap bar humbuckers, bridge, middle and neck.
Controlled Passively with three stacked volume and tone pots for total control over volume and tone and space saving.
Each pickup having a micro coil tap switch so you can get the single coil sound as well.
The middle pickup as well as having the coil tap has a second micro switch to allow the pickup to be split top and bottom like a Precision ( Burns did it on some of their basses but it was bridge and middle pickup split top and bottom)
6 way rotary tone control like the Gibson SG bass and Aria SB 1000 for even more
Tone choices when in passive mode.
I think it might also require two three way pickup selectors unless it's possible to wire a another 6 way rotary switch so you can get front / front and middle/ middle/ middle and bridge/ bridge/ bridge and front
I was also thinking maybe 6 dip switches on the upper horn like a Fender Jaguar might work for this task. Forgot I also need all three pickups on at the same time.

On top of all that an active switch that allows a three band EQ to be used so
you can create the Musicman and modern bass sounds. Could be stacked into two knobs. Treble and Bass on one and mids with a frequency sweep on the second or just three knobs bass mid treble but I do like the mid frequency sweep option.
The coil taps and Precision mode would still have to work in active mode although
the 6 way rotary switch would be a bit overkill I think.
The active switch would have an led light to confirm its in active mode.
Not sure whether is needs to be 9 or 18 volt because I wanted to use "hot" pickups
for when the bass is in passive mode 18 volts might give a bit more headroom.

To achieve all of this it may require an active and separate passive circuit with two output jack sockets one passive and one active.

All of this would be shoehorned into a Jazz bass style body as this shape is the most popular throughout the world or at least something similar, probably with scratch plate the size of a Marcus Miller to house all the electrics.
The neck would be that "not quiet a Precision not quiet a Jazz neck" that everyone seems to like.
I call it the "Everyman Bass" I am sure nobody has ever produced a bass that really could sound like a dozen other basses without the compromise of being active or passive, certainly not on a mass production scale. Maybe you might know of a bass but I don't and that's even if it's possible to build electronically

The reply:

Thanks for getting in touch!

Sounds like you've got an interesting project on your hands. I'd recommend going to talk to one of our Custom Shop dealers if you'd like to get something along these lines speced up or just to find out if it's even possible. My knowledge of the electronics of a bass is somewhat limited. If you'd like to find your nearest Custom Shop dealer follow this link.

Kind Regards

Josh Franklin
Sales Administrator
Fender Great Britain & Ireland

[discreet]

Great idea - but reading between the lines Fender are saying, 'That's nice dear, but we don't consider consumers' input in the slightest when coming up with new products and in any case we hardly ever deviate from our tried and tested lines. When we do try something a bit different it gets slagged off on the forums so we don't bother any more. We're doing all right anyway, thanks very much. If you want to make your idea a reality it's best (for us) if you pay through the nose and get Custom Shop to do it because we aren't interested. I'm just a bean-counter anyway and know bugger-all about bass guitars and care even less'.

Or am I just being an old cynic? It's hot, isn't it? Where's that kid with my Zero Max??

Edited July 17, 2014 by discreet

[chris_b]

Of course it's not a project they'd be interested in. But, hey, they replied and gave you some options that might get you close to your bass. How many companies are "too busy" to bother replying to speculative customer enquiries? 10 out of 10 for Fender.

Talk to John Shuker. He'll make you one of these at a better price than Fender could.


Off topic: Fender isn't doing "all right".

The last I saw, earlier this year, they were up the Suwannee, trying to refinance a debt of approx $250 million, with low growth, low returns and an over dependence on Guitar Centre for sales, which isn't in great shape itself.

[discreet]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1405590482' post='2503278']
Talk to John Shuker. He'll make you one of these at a better price than Fender could.
[/quote]

+1 Custom Shop is overly expensive given the end result - in my humble opinion.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Sounds like you need to try a Variax modelling bass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgq9hlJysj8

[HowieBass]

Would there be any wood left in the body after shoehorning all those pickups, active/passive electronics, jack sockets, control pots, battery compartment and switches into it? Ah hang on, by default you've created a chambered bass... add a brass tone block under the bridge to stop the neck dive and you've created a killer instrument!

[wingnutkj]

I'm now trying to remember the name of the UK builder who recently made a bass with a massive multi-coil pickup which could be switched to simulate various permutations of coils.This was a fairly recent thing - I'm thinking it was something to do with Sims Customs, but a different name. Anyone remember?

[throwoff]

Enfield

http://www.enfieldguitars.com/

[wingnutkj]

That's the one! Thanks.

[flyfisher]

Why would Fender be interested in doing such a thing? Imagine the reviews they'd get if they brought out a bass with all that stuff loaded on to it? I bet they get hundreds of these sort of suggestions every week from bassists all over the world.

They've set out their stall and they've done pretty well with it over the years. Some like it, some don't. That's life. There are plenty of custom builders out there who will make whatever you want.

[Reversebird]

Hi all
Loving the comments as I said this would be the bass I would ask Fender to build if I was ever
asked by Fender if I wanted a signature model....which is very unlikely to happen lol
Couple of points:
A modelling guitar isn't the way to go for me I want real sounds from the pickups.
I looked at the Marcus Miller Jazz and there is plenty of room for micro switches and mini pots on the scratch plate. Electronics don't really add a massive amount of weight :-))
Fender wouldn't build this as you say, even most of their own Artist basses haven't really pushed the bass guitar forward, Mike Dirnt and Marcus Miller being the exception for me.
Liking the Enfield basses, I think they may be able to build the electronics to my spec and they they are in Kent my home county.
Thanks

Edited July 17, 2014 by Reversebird

[discreet]

[quote name='Reversebird' timestamp='1405594978' post='2503347']
Fender wouldn't build this as you say, even most of their own Artist basses haven't really pushed the bass guitar forward, Mike Dirnt and Marcus Miller being the exception for me.
[/quote]

And another thing - if you could get every possible bass tone from one bass, there wouldn't be any justification for people to amass huge collections of basses and GAS would be eliminated at a stroke! Whether this would be a problem or not, I don't know...

Edited July 17, 2014 by discreet

[wingnutkj]

You could get one in each colour...

[discreet]

[quote name='wingnutkj' timestamp='1405595248' post='2503352']
You could get one in each colour...
[/quote]

Black, white and sunburst..?

[Reversebird]

Discreet
Isn't that why some people have more than one bass because if you play different music you need different sounds.
Obviously there are collectors who like different styles of bass different necks, colours (lol) etc but some of these are never played they are just an investment. I was looking for a working mans bass, a bass that is everything sound wise to suit every taste, mass produced and available to every pocket not just one off custom job, so I don't know either.

[CamdenRob]

Thing is though... Each current design is engineered towards a specific sound. If you tried to make a bass that was all things to all people, it would probably fall short in the one thing that people are looking for when buying a specific bass.

Also, you will always be lacking something that certain people will want... for example, your bass does not have Wal pickups or a Wal preamp, so for my own personal taste, even with all those mods, it would be missing the first thing I would want from my ultimate bass.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Reversebird' timestamp='1405595740' post='2503357']
...a bass that is everything sound wise to suit every taste, mass produced and available to every pocket not just one off custom job...
[/quote]

Is that really a realistic aim ? You can please some of the people all of the time, etc....

Edited July 17, 2014 by ahpook

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405595165' post='2503351']
there wouldn't be any justification for people to amass huge collections of basses and GAS would be eliminated at a stroke! Whether this would be a problem or not, I don't know...
[/quote]

Okay, perhaps this is a high level view but from a single company business perspective it would be wrong. Selling one guitar instead of several? If other marques started to lose share to Fender, they would just copy the Everyman (as many have already with J and P bass models) and Fender sales would revert to as before.

The second hand market would also suffer; players will not need to change for any reason (other than wear and tear?) and the majority of collectors are not going to be too interested in just buying the same noise just for a different colour. From a consumer angle, yes it makes sense, but then unless we all stop buying guitars, why should the business change ethos?

[CamdenRob]

Also I'd rather see a design with new ideas bringing something different to the table... The "Everyman" is basically just a combination of features currently available elsewhere on mass produced instruments.

[Dood]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1405593320' post='2503327']
Enfield

[url="http://www.enfieldguitars.com/"]http://www.enfieldguitars.com/[/url]
[/quote]

I've reviewed the LionHeart bass and have to say I was very impressed with the pickups. I'd love to get my hands on a Cannon bass next to try out as I feel that Martin and team have really done well with creating a pickup unit that can cover P, J and MM in one unit. Put two units in a bass and you have a really flexible system. The LionHeart bass is a very nice piece of kit too.

I'd also echo the sentiment above looking at Shuker as a custom builder. One of the finest set of craftsman hands we have in the Uk,

[chris_b]

If I was a manager at Fender I'd say, we already dominate the market sounding like us, so why should we want to sound like someone else.


A working mans bass?

Fender already did that 60 years ago and it remains one of the worlds most iconic and popular instruments.

[stingrayPete1977]

Musicman made "the game changer" it mostly got slagged off on here, it matches your needs quite closely and better still you can save pre set settings too. To many knobs for me I'll stick with the single switch on my stingrays thanks.

[Reversebird]

I take on board what everyone is saying, it's a bit like inventing a water powered car.....it's maybe not in everyone's interest. I read lots of posts on here from beginners asking advice about buying a new bass or their first bass usually it has to suit a couple of different styles and different sounds etc.....and maybe something like this would help to solve the problem providing it could be brought in on a sensible budget, which is not impossible. Building guitars and basses has become a very cheap industry, electronics that say twenty years ago you would have paid a small fortune for in your instrument are now available in some of the cheapest guitars out there. Buying guitars from top makers has become very expensive. Most of these designs are over 40 years old.
For example
I have an active Epiphone Tobias Deluxe in my bass collection) which retail new about £175. I brought it secondhand in mint condition for £90. It is an amazing bass, great controllable sound, light weight, nice neck, beautiful walnut colour all for £175 how do Epiphone do it?? Take their profit margin on the bass build, the shops profit margin and the shipping costs means they are building these for less than £100 ????
Anyway I digress, but it is possible to build my bass a cost for "Everyman". Back to my Ultimate bass I have just read the articles on the Enfield Guitar site and I think I may have been beaten to the winning post. These guys are making some incredible advances in pickup technology and electronics for bass. Have a look at their website it will blow you away technically, is this the future of bass sounds, how long before this technology becomes the "norm" ???? This makes some systems seem very old hat now.

[zero9]

Fender could put their name on a plank of wood and it would sell (they've been doing this for years).

If I was looking for the ultimate bass, Fender wouldn't be on my list to approach.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

[quote name='Reversebird' timestamp='1405594978' post='2503347']
A modelling guitar isn't the way to go for me I want real sounds from the pickups.
[/quote]
Just curious, but do you know this from first hand experience?

I haven't tried the Variax myself, but I have had chance to play with some different types of amp modelling software, and although there are differences in reponse from a players perspective compared to a cranked amp in the room, I found that some plugins sounded like sh*te but others produced quite acceptable and even convincing noises, and surely the end result coming from FOH is the most important thing. I don't think that the Variax would substitute for the real deal in a recording situation if you wanted a specific bass, but live I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference with their ears, and it would certainly tick the boxes in terms of everyman price point based on what they sold for when they were being produced.

On a slightly offtopic note - different people have different views about covers, personally I don't see the sense in trying to replicate a studio recording on the stage - very few bands do this anyway (apart from lipsyncing top 40 pop acts) - I've always felt that as both an audience member and a performer that the energy and commitment to the performance on stage is the most important thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlpTRNIAvc

Never heard JB perform anything like it is on the record, and he is one of my personal benchmark performers for committing unequivocably on stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIpkMDRjYw

Look at the vibe between the band members - IMHO if I can bring that kind of attitude, joy and energy to the stage I don't believe that anyone is going to care about whether the sound is exactly the same(or even close) as the original recording, because they will be too preoccupied with having a good time.