The 4 Hour Bar Gig, A Thing Of The Past?

[Bilbo]

I think there are other cultural considerations involved in this. Most of the UK is relatively sparcely populated and the idea of any bar outside of London and a couple of other cities being able to fill itself with a credible audience for 5 hours a night on anything other than a Friday or Saturday night is close to fantasy. Add the issue of genres of preference, work patterns, available disposable income etc etc and you have very few areas that could even begin to sustain a scene that would allow for 4 or 5 hour gigs on anything other than an VERY exceptional occasion. I have done Jazz gigs where I have done 4 x 45m sets but have found them interminable and exhausting. As a reader, I have an endless repretoire so it is not about knowing enough material, it is about audiences having the stamina, venues having the audiences to justify that much music etc. I know a lot of US venues practice clearing the venue for each set (Village Vanguard used to do this, I believe) so each set has a different audience. Also eating out in the US is more common than it is in the UK so that may have some bearing on audience size. It is also cheaper, as is fuel, alcohol etc. All sorts of factors are at play here.

[allighatt0r]

We got asked by a bar to play 10 until 2 with a 30 minute break for £200. He was politely declined.

Standard pub gigs that I do are 9 (sometimes 9:15, maybe 9:30) until 11:30 or 12. Usually with a half hour break.

[JTUK]

2 things spring to mind...
Gigs are exhausting and some drummers just would not be fit enough so
2 hours is enough for us.
Not really that interested in extra time as we have cratfed the times and the set
to the time allowed.... plus the drummer with have gone through 3 shirts
by then..

We quote for the gig and so we know what times to start and finish and we work that.
Of course, we aren't worried about an extra couple of numbers but we have the big ending
and we only have a few more numbers big enough in reserve...
That is why you work with Disco's as they mop up afterwards...if that is the sort of gig it is..

[Graham]

We typically do an hour first set, half hour(ish) break, play for another hour and quarter(ish); though at weddings and functions this is obviously dictated by the client's needs.

Longest we tend to do is three hours, split into three sets NYE, would I do four hours? Sure, but it wouldn't be cheap - we give quite a physical performance so four hours would be a lot of effort, plus I'd be good for nothing the next day as me being out late doesn't make the children stay in bed any later the next morning!

Also, we tend to find that if the client is given the choice of the band carrying on longer for more money, or a DJ (the singer with Spotify on his phone) for a lower amount of money they'll take the DJ.

[geoham]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1405940605' post='2506664']
At functions, we generally play a 45 first and then anything up to a 90 minute second set, sometimes longer if it's going mental and we're allowed to. Pubs are much more controlled, there's one we play regularly where we go on at 10pm and play till about 1am, with a 15 minute break in there somewhere, but that's the exception rather than the rule - 2x45 is what's asked (and paid) for most of the time, so that's what we do. Never been asked for a 4 hour set, in 30+ years of playing...must be a US thing.
[/quote]

I think there is a bit of a Scotland / England divide here too. North of the border, wedding bands normally play from 8 to midnight, with a break for the evening buffet. I believe that in England, 2 x 45 minutes followed by a DJ is the norm. Gigs in Scottish social clubs (& similar) are much the same, though the break will be for bingo rather than a buffet!

[lowdown]

Wimps....
During the 70/80's not uncommon to do 4, 5 and 6 sets of 45 mins on 15 mins off.
Doing American airbases in Germany, Cruises and night club residency stints in Denmark,
London etc, it was the norm six days a week.

Some of the corporate functions I dep on these days usually has the rhythm section trio
playing dinner music for 90 mins/two hours before the main gig (extra dosh of course).

To be honest during those 6 night residency gigs in the 70's it was great
for getting your playing chops together.

Edited July 21, 2014 by lowdown

[Mickeyboro]

Pub I've played in Maidenhead expects 10pm-1am with two breaks (3 sets).

You tend to get different audiences for each set, as people move up and down the high street, get thrown out of closing pubs, etc. Obviously the last set is when the alcohol starts to really take a hold…so we save the rockier/best numbers till then.

Last time we played there, we packed up at 12.30 unexpectedly. Our lead singer's daughter had been taken to hospital, and he'd found out at 9, so we played through a break and finished early. Trouble was, no-one bothered to tell me! But kudos to him for sticking with it (she was okay).

[JTUK]

Pub gigs for 3 sets..??? What is the money for those?

[wateroftyne]

2x45's round these parts. Plus encores if you're feeling wanted / charitable.

[bonzodog]

2 x 60mins for us plus a handful of encores. I think I would struggle with anymore as I am knackered by the end of it. Then again all of our songs are quite up beat

[KevB]

I'm not sure most people in bars/pubs in the UK actually want to hear four hour sets these days no matter how much the egos of the musicians concerned are convinced they could really entertain folks for that long to a good standard. The days of four hour sets are also the days of 2 or 3 channels to choose from on TV, no mobile phones and the only other likely distraction in the venue might be a dart board. Times change and people change with it.

[CamdenRob]

Four hours? I've only ever played in originals bands and that's an hour tops for a headline slot. Most support slots only half an hour.

I get bored of listenig to the same band after a while, kinda feel like its better to leave a venue wishing you'd seen more of a band than to leave thinking you've heard enough of them...

Having said that, I went to see Elton John a couple of weeks back and he played for ages and it was great...

Edited July 21, 2014 by CamdenRob

[Dad3353]

Not all gigs are concerts, though. The people out dancing at a village annual fair aren't watching the band (for the most part...), they're dancing. As the style of music varies, the folks on the floor will change, to get a drink and come back later. The band just keeps on going, varying the styles as the event progresses. It's a different ambiance to 'watching a group'.

[JTUK]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1405951441' post='2506841']
I'm not sure most people in bars/pubs in the UK actually want to hear four hour sets these days no matter how much the egos of the musicians concerned are convinced they could really entertain folks for that long to a good standard. The days of four hour sets are also the days of 2 or 3 channels to choose from on TV, no mobile phones and the only other likely distraction in the venue might be a dart board. Times change and people change with it.
[/quote]

I can just about manage 45 mins to the break for pub bands and if we do them then that is what we aim for.
The second will be 45 plus 15 mins of an encore but by that time we will be pretty sure if they want to hear us.
At the end of 2 hrs, we are spent with both drums and vox, especially.

If places are still serving beer, then you can tell how well you have done as a lot people don't drift off home
if they have had a very good time

[Mickeyboro]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1405949269' post='2506821']
Pub gigs for 3 sets..??? What is the money for those?
[/quote]
£200 I fear - standard for any length set...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1405952276' post='2506855']
Not all gigs are concerts, though. The people out dancing at a village annual fair aren't watching the band (for the most part...), they're dancing. As the style of music varies, the folks on the floor will change, to get a drink and come back later. The band just keeps on going, varying the styles as the event progresses. It's a different ambiance to 'watching a group'.
[/quote]

That is what disco's are for.
Most parties will book the band to be lively ...or just because they like them and it is more a sense of an event with a band.
They will also book a disco and we encourage that and work with them. We don't want to keep the P.A up much longer
after we have finished...that could go on for ever ha ha or it is just introducing a variable that is difficult to charge for.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1405953385' post='2506868']
£200 I fear - standard for any length set...
[/quote]

wow.... I was thinking that would have to be a £350-400 gig/fee.
Some places want their pound of flesh...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1405953577' post='2506869']
That is what disco's are for.
Most parties will book the band to be lively ...or just because they like them and it is more a sense of an event with a band.
They will also book a disco and we encourage that and work with them. We don't want to keep the P.A up much longer
after we have finished...that could go on for ever ha ha or it is just introducing a variable that is difficult to charge for.
[/quote]

What are these 'discos' of which you speak, young sire..? Would these involve the throwing of a saucer over a great distance..? Ha, kids, these days..! Seen it all..! The world's a big place.

[JTUK]

Yes, agree, many ways to skin a cat.

We aim to do our event thing and with that you need a degree of control
so we tend to tell the client what we will do and what we need to do it...
and also accept that some bands will be more suitable/compliable to the customers remit.

I think our aim is general £1000 parties... but if you want to chase the £1500-2000
gigs you either need to swim in those circles and 'friends'/contacts will pay it or you need to be
prepared to travel and work harder.

We are old gits lazy...

[bassist_lewis]

The weddings/functions I do are always 4 hours with a one hour break included. Sometimes longer if the client pays. It makes the typical 30 minutes for original gigs fly by!
At pubs we're booked for 2 hrs 45mins and take 15-30 minute break.

[Lozz196]

Most of the time in my old punk covers band we did a 45min set, break, 1hr set. We did a couple of 3 set nights, 45mins a piece. But I`d be more than happy to do 4 hours providing the audience wanted it. Sounds like great fun to me.

[blue]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1405940637' post='2506665']
I think there are other cultural considerations involved in this. Most of the UK is relatively sparcely populated and the idea of any bar outside of London and a couple of other cities being able to fill itself with a credible audience for 5 hours a night on anything other than a Friday or Saturday night is close to fantasy. Add the issue of genres of preference, work patterns, available disposable income etc etc and you have very few areas that could even begin to sustain a scene that would allow for 4 or 5 hour gigs on anything other than an VERY exceptional occasion. I have done Jazz gigs where I have done 4 x 45m sets but have found them interminable and exhausting. As a reader, I have an endless repretoire so it is not about knowing enough material, it is about audiences having the stamina, venues having the audiences to justify that much music etc. I know a lot of US venues practice clearing the venue for each set (Village Vanguard used to do this, I believe) so each set has a different audience. Also eating out in the US is more common than it is in the UK so that may have some bearing on audience size. It is also cheaper, as is fuel, alcohol etc. All sorts of factors are at play here.
[/quote]

Yes, there are definately cultural considerations. Over here in Yankee land 4 hours is standard. However, except for our true fans, people don't stay for the whole 4 hours and we don't expect them to.

Keep in mind were doing 70s hard rock and blues covers. Original bands are doing multi bill shows and play a 1 hour set.

Blue

Edited July 21, 2014 by blue

[tony_m]

I remember going to see the late, great Willie Kent (and The Gents) playing their residency at Blue Chicago on Clark when I was over in the US (must have been 1994 I reckon).

They played 45 minutes on, 15 minutes off, every hour from 9pm until 1am. What was interesting to me was how the audience "churned" through the night, with folks seemingly dropping in on their way home from work / out for the night, catching a set (and having a drink or two), before heading home / elsewhere. By the end of the night, the only person who'd been there all the time (apart from the bar-staff and musicians) was this rather tipsy Brit babbling to Willie about how great they'd been and why wasn't he using his beat-up old Precision (apparently it needed a new nut).

Edited July 21, 2014 by tony_m

[leschirons]

Friday was a medium gig for me. Started at 8.30, 15 min break at 10.00, carry on until midnight. Place still full when we finished.
Over here it's not unusual for bar gigs to finish at 1.00 or 2.00 if the crowd are up for it. Have played quite a few 4 hour gigs but then we'd split that into 3 sets. I do love it but as Dad has pointed out, it really takes its toll at my sort of age (62) Especially when there's another the next night although I do just leave it all in the van for the following night.

[jonsebass]

So what is the going rate for gigs then? Do you have a "bass" (geddit) cost (of say £200) and then add on extra $$$ for longer sets etc?

I've played bass in the same band for yonks now, and we started off playing pubs for £160 (when we first started out as a 4 piece) and then that went to £200 as we became more popular. Now we are a 5 piece we play 1st pub gigs for £250 and subsequent for £300. We have pretty much always done 1x 60 min set and 1x 90ish min sets. Weddings/parties we charge double for (£600 just for the band) because the majority of the time we have to setup early/the day before so theres a lot of travelling. Set times are normally chosen by the person thats booked us.

I've heard of some bands that charge more to bring their own PA/lights and things, which I find ludicrous really.

In terms of playing for 4 hours, I think I probably would as long as its pointed out upfront and reflected in the booking fee (I will never forget the time that our guitarist couldnt do a gig so we did it as a 4 piece with about an hours notice - it was a common gig for us but a new landlord. He asked the 4 of us to play from 10pm til 1am with a 15 minute break (we used to do 9:30 - 11:30 under the old landlord). He knew we charged £250 (first gig for him) and we managed to get thru the gig by playing our normal set as best as we could and blagging a few others. He came up to us at the end of the gig and paid us £200 and told us that he didnt need to pay us fully as we were a man down! What an idiot. Needless to say he didnt stay there long!)