The 4 Hour Bar Gig, A Thing Of The Past?

[grenadilla]

There is sometimes a hand rail at the front of the stage. This is for a peaceful drunk who leans over to request a song. Without this barrier he may get close and puke on the gear. -Or ask to play my bass !

[Dad3353]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463658544' post='3053136']...
As for the set list...
[/quote]

Our chum will doubtless confirm or deny, but I don't think it's that hard to have a set consisting of blues/rock stuff in that ilk. I would imagine that these are not two-minute punk utterings, probably more like five to ten minutes. Red House..? Cocaine..? Sunshine Of Your Love..? Knockin' On Heaven's Door..? On a really hot night, Europa..? The American jazz scene has the whole Real Book to choose from as a repertoire; I'd imagine that these bar bands have an equivalent portfolio of '60s/'70s blues-rock numbers; we all know them. No-one has to 'agree' anything; the front man (or lady...) calls one out, and they play it. How hard can it be to put Voodoo Chile under one's belt..? Twenty numbers for two hours, rinse and repeat..? Swap 'em around a bit..? If someone has been playing this stuff for a couple of years, I can imagine that a hundred tunes are easily available and on tap. S'not the same as a 'democratic' pub band all eager to do different genres. As a drummer, I could play any of that stuff for two or three days and not repeat a title. Most of that drumming is basically 'Ting-Tingty-Ting', anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, though...

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463661429' post='3053183']
Most of that drumming is basically 'Ting-Tingty-Ting', anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, though...
[/quote]

Some of them go tinty-ting-ting Dad, you're wrong

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1463626185' post='3052913']
The BL calls all the songs, no set list. I'm not sure what your looking for, we play rock and blues from the 70, Savoy Brown, Peter Green, Robin Trower, Hendrix, Cream, Joplin. If your under 60 years old, I doubt those names would mean anything to you.

Blue
[/quote]

This is how old dance bands worked... they'd have the entire catalogue on the floor as prompts, read the crowd and call the tune.

Never ever was a bar/pub band remit...IME.

You'd be playing 50 odd songs a night..altho I obviously never counted them
I made a living doing this in my teens and it was one of the best educations..
Play what is in front of you, keep it going and never loose the crowd.
Many a 'memorable' gig and you knew the crowd had had a great time if they hung around a lot after the gig.
That is still a truism to day... noone goes home ealry after a great gig..IMO.

Today, that is a ticketed function gig and the money would be the equivalent of about a £1500 gig, I'd guess..

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1463670570' post='3053264']
This is how old dance bands worked... they'd have the entire catalogue on the floor as prompts, read the crowd and call the tune.
[/quote]

That's why you play numbers.

The band leader just call 4 or 92 or whatever and that was the number of the chart in the book.

Just thought everyone needed to know that!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1463670869' post='3053269']
That's why you play numbers...
[/quote]

... which reminds me ...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/278383-bad-jokes/page__view__findpost__p__1448639"]http://basschat.co.u...ost__p__1448639[/url]

Edited May 19, 2016 by Dad3353

[Marvin]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1463534672' post='3052153']
Your band must be a headliner act.

There's no 80 minute business for local bar bands in the States. 80 minute shows are for national and regional headliners.

The local originals bands might see a few 80 minute shows, but they would be "no pay" shows.

Blue
[/quote]

We're an originals band. Depending on the gig we might be headlining or a support slot. I've only just joined, but the last 2 gigs have both been paid. The first was a support for another band the second was, strangely a wedding. Both gigs, we only played for 50mins.

We've been approached by a few venues (mainly small), including what would be deemed to be a bar in the States. For those we'd be looking to have a support act, or two, with us.

To make even a modest living gigging would require lots of time away from home playing in a functions band, not something I'm at all interested in. I neither want to be playing the music they play or be spending that amount of time away from home.

I enjoy the what this band does, it suits me so I'll be sticking with it as long as the others want to.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Marvin

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463639652' post='3052935']

What I was looking for was a list of the songs you that play in your four hour set. I'm not sure where the confusion is there. I'm genuinely interested to know what songs go down well in bar gigs on your side of the pond.

So, you're saying anyone born after 1956 can have no appreciation of Hendrix?
[/quote]

WHAT GOES OVER?

What goes over depends on the crowd,the venue.We're not going to win with the 21 year olds.

There are some clubs that nothing works. For example we play a lot of the same clubs in rotation. We know what clubs "Little Wing" will kill in and we know the clubs it won't.

In general we have a few songs with a high success rate in any decent club, a contemporary rock version of Nancy Sinatras " Boots Are Made For Walking". We do well with Savoy Brown material, Robin Trowers "To Rolling Stoned". Peter Greene's "Oh Well". Crazy Little Thing Called Love gets people on the dance floor. Curtis Mayfield's "People Get Ready" We have a few originals that go over surprisingly well.

The confusion is, if you understand gigging and gig a lot you know that there are a lot of variables that determines what material works,where it works and what time in the 4 hours it works.

Stage time for bar bands is "golden" use it to improve your chops and understanding of the business.

HENDRIX

I'm saying the level appreciation would not be the same as fans born in 1953. It depends on how far after 1956 your talking about.

There are 20 and 30 year olds that love and appreciate Hendrix,but certainly not at my level.

Understand, that's merely my opinion.

For example I like and appreciate Duke Ellington, but not at the same level as my parents. They were there and on the dance floor, I wasn't.

Blue

Edited May 19, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1463676399' post='3053319']


We're an originals band. Depending on the gig we might be headlining or a support slot. I've only just joined, but the last 2 gigs have both been paid. The first was a support for another band the second was, strangely a wedding. Both gigs, we only played for 50mins.

We've been approached by a few venues (mainly small), including what would be deemed to be a bar in the States. For those we'd be looking to have a support act, or two, with us.

To make even a modest living gigging would require lots of time away from home playing in a functions band, not something I'm at all interested in. I neither want to be playing the music they play or be spending that amount of time away from home.

I enjoy the what this band does, it suits me so I'll be sticking with it as long as the others want to.
[/quote]

Cool, we're all different.

Me,I want to spend as much time away from home as possible.

I'll play any genre of music that's done well with a professional attitude and respectable pay. I won't disrespect what I do and love for $70.00.

I enjoy doing what my band does, it suits me so I'll be sticking with it as long as possible. The band has been together for 10 year. I've been with them for the last 5 years.

Blue

Edited May 19, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1463670869' post='3053269']


That's why you play numbers.

The band leader just call 4 or 92 or whatever and that was the number of the chart in the book.

Just thought everyone needed to know that!
[/quote]

No list, our BL will call out songs in groups of 3 and 4 songs.

It works.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463658544' post='3053136']

I'm all for opinions being expressed, but there must be some basis to it. Blue doesn't know me or my musical taste. If he's done his homework he might know that I'm substantially the right side of 60, but to assume that the artists mentioned mean nothing to me is quite frankly absurd. Even more so given that this is a music forum.

As for the set list, I am genuinely interested in the content for a four gig. Most of the pub bands I've been in have struggled to agree on two hours worth, so four hours is quite an achievement. For the sake of a quick copy and paste, I didn't think it was a big ask.
[/quote]

I believe I said "if your under 60".

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1463647464' post='3053006']

because under 60's don't listen to music any further back than the 80's... what a daft comment.
[/quote]

Daft to you, it makes perfect sense to me.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1463500188' post='3051849']
no disrespect Blue, but the point I was making was that if we just stood there and played, 4 hours would be ok but we do a lot of jumping around and play all fast punky stuff (hard work for the drummer), no 10 minute blues style guitar solo's in our set, that may not be the case in your band of course but I would imagine you have songs where you take a 'breather'
[/quote]

I can't think of a time in 4 hours where anybody is merely standing there.

And there are certain modifications we've had to make to the genre. No 10 minute guitar solos and no bass or drum solos.


Blue

[Dad3353]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463684207' post='3053402']
What a load of old tosh!
[/quote]

+1

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1463669186' post='3053252']
Some of them go tinty-ting-ting Dad, you're wrong

[/quote]

I'm sure I wrote 'Most', and not 'All'. You're right, though, some [i]do [/i]go 'Tingty-Ting-Ting'.

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1463644936' post='3052973']
off topic! but this thread leads me to wonder "do you need a large ego to be a good musician" ?
[/quote]

Not all musicians are 'front men' with egos. The world is a very large place.

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463684207' post='3053402']

What a load of old tosh!
[/quote]

Not to me,makes perfect sense.

Blue

[peteb]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1463678133' post='3053338']

HENDRIX

I'm saying the level appreciation would not be the same as fans born in 1953. It depends on how far after 1956 your talking about.

There are 20 and 30 year olds that love and appreciate Hendrix,but certainly not at my level.

Understand, that's merely my opinion.

For example I like and appreciate Duke Ellington, but not at the same level as my parents. They were there and on the dance floor, I wasn't.

Blue
[/quote]
I’m not sure that you’re entirely right there. I know some 20 somethings (all working blues guitar players obviously) who live and breathe Hendrix, Clapton et al. Of course they don’t have the advantage of having experienced them when it was fresh and innovative, but then neither did I and I’m in my 50s! similarly there will be some 20 yr old kid on a jazz programme in music college who will have a hard-on for Ellington.

So not entirely right – just about 97%!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463661429' post='3053183']
Our chum will doubtless confirm or deny, but I don't think it's that hard to have a set consisting of blues/rock stuff in that ilk. I would imagine that these are not two-minute punk utterings, probably more like five to ten minutes. Red House..? Cocaine..? Sunshine Of Your Love..? Knockin' On Heaven's Door..? On a really hot night, Europa..? The American jazz scene has the whole Real Book to choose from as a repertoire; I'd imagine that these bar bands have an equivalent portfolio of '60s/'70s blues-rock numbers; we all know them. No-one has to 'agree' anything; the front man (or lady...) calls one out, and they play it.

[/quote]
There isn’t a book as such, but it’s fair to assume that most guys on such a gig will know the bigger Hendrix or Cream tracks. Certainly if someone was to ring up and a few days before and say we need an extra 90 minutes so have a listen to these 12 tunes, then if the band was good enough it would all come together on the night.

Edited May 19, 2016 by peteb

[peteb]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463661429' post='3053183']
How hard can it be to put Voodoo Chile under one's belt..? Twenty numbers for two hours, rinse and repeat..? Swap 'em around a bit..? If someone has been playing this stuff for a couple of years, I can imagine that a hundred tunes are easily available and on tap. S'not the same as a 'democratic' pub band all eager to do different genres. As a drummer, I could play any of that stuff for two or three days and not repeat a title. Most of that drumming is basically 'Ting-Tingty-Ting', anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, though...
[/quote]
Of course not, it’s all that easy – that’s why there are so many brilliant blues bands playing the pub circuit…!

[BassTractor]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1463678133' post='3053338']
HENDRIX

I'm saying the level appreciation would not be the same as fans born in 1953. It depends on how far after 1956 your talking about.

There are 20 and 30 year olds that love and appreciate Hendrix,but certainly not at my level.

Understand, that's merely my opinion.
[/quote]


IMHO there is indeed a good point hidden in there, and one I feel most people do accept, but that point is severely damaged by your generalisations and extrapolations.
I think the main logical flaw in this is the near linear relationship you paint between age (as in having been there) and appreciation. In the real world however, we find Hendrix appreciation distribution curves, whereby for example [b]some[/b] 20 and 30 year olds can understand and appreciate on levels much beyond those of [b]some[/b] fans born in 1953.

To paint another picture and build on Hiram's notion about Mozart, there's this classical organist and harpsichordist called Ton Koopman. You might wish to look him up. Virtually no-one on the planet knows more about J.S. Bach, Bach's music and Bach's time than he does. Koopman annoyingly singlemindedly lives and breathes Bach.
Most probably, NOBODY during the Baroque age lived and breathed J.S. Bach like he does today.

Are you telling Koopman that he can't understand and appreciate Bach like someone born in 1685 (of course given that that person is still alive, able and of sound mind) ?

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1463695126' post='3053506']

So no-one can truly appreciate Mozart then?
[/quote]

Sure you can, but there will be some that for different reasons will have a different perspective or higher level of appreciation of Mozart.

Blue

Edited May 19, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1463698423' post='3053531']



IMHO there is indeed a good point hidden in there, and one I feel most people do accept, but that point is severely damaged by your generalisations and extrapolations.
I think the main logical flaw in this is the near linear relationship you paint between age (as in having been there) and appreciation. In the real world however, we find Hendrix appreciation distribution curves, whereby for example [b]some[/b] 20 and 30 year olds can understand and appreciate on levels much beyond those of [b]some[/b] fans born in 1953.

To paint another picture and build on Hiram's notion about Mozart, there's this classical organist and harpsichordist called Ton Koopman. You might wish to look him up. Virtually no-one on the planet knows more about J.S. Bach, Bach's music and Bach's time than he does. Koopman annoyingly singlemindedly lives and breathes Bach.
Most probably, NOBODY during the Baroque age lived and breathed J.S. Bach like he does today.

Are you telling Koopman that he can't understand and appreciate Bach like someone born in 1685 (of course given that that person is still alive, able and of sound mind) ?
[/quote]

I think some of us were just born at the right time and had unique exposure to his music. Number 1, being there from the beginning and hearing his music evolve from when it was first presented, not 40 year's after the fact.I personally think there's a difference.

I was lucky enough to see The Jimi Hendrix Experience twice and I was at the famous Band Of Gypsys show New Years Eve 1969 at The Filmore East.

To me, that gives me a different type, different level of appreciation than someone discovering Hendrix 40 years after the fact. Not necessarily better, but different.

Agreed, I do tend to generalize, I do it to strengthen my position or point.

Blue

Edited May 20, 2016 by blue

[Dad3353]

[size=4][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]snob [/font][i]noun[/i][/size][list]
[*]A[font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif] person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"[/font][/i][list]
[*][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]A person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"a musical snob"[/font][/i]

Edited May 20, 2016 by Dad3353

[blue]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463705727' post='3053566']
[size=4][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]snob [/font][i]noun[/i][/size][list]
[*]A[font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif] person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"[/font][/i][list]
[*][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]A person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"a musical snob"[/font][/i]
[/quote]

Agreed, good definition of a snob. It doesn't apply to me or my position, but it's still a good definition.

Blue

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463705727' post='3053566']
[font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]snob [/font][i]noun[/i][list]
[*]A[font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif] person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"[/font][/i][list]
[*][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]A person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people[/font]
[/list]
[i][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]​[/font][font=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]"a musical snob"[/font][/i]
[/quote]


Thanks for the excuse to post this latest blog of mine which has no relevance to the discussion at all, except that it is about Musical Snobbery,

http://davedoesntwriteanythingever.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/has-music-snobbery-ruined-your-life.html

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1463742430' post='3053734']
Thanks for the excuse to post this latest blog of mine which has no relevance to the discussion at all, except that it is about Musical Snobbery,...
[/quote]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:147744]

Ha-ha..! He had a Bon Jovi cassette..!

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1463744965' post='3053767']


Ha-ha..! He had a Bon Jovi cassette..!
[/quote]