Band Logos

[Weststarx]

Can anyone recommend me somone who can do band logos?

Or if anyone is extremely kind enough to do it for free?

I have a rough sketch of what I want, I just need somone to make it look sexy.

Thanks for your help!

[joeystrange]

Recommend, yes.
Free, sadly not.

Our guitarist is a great designer/illustrator. I mean, really really great!

You can find him at http://www.bingercreative.co.uk/

[JamieMillsBass]

This isn't a dig at the OP (I've asked the same question as he has of people in the past), but why do people automatically assume that it's OK to ask for work in the 'creative industries' to be done for free?

Again, not a dig at the OP, just thought it might start a discussion.

[Weststarx]

[quote name='JamieMillsBass' timestamp='1406713931' post='2513948']
This isn't a dig at the OP (I've asked the same question as he has of people in the past), but why do people automatically assume that it's OK to ask for work in the 'creative industries' to be done for free?

Again, not a dig at the OP, just thought it might start a discussion.
[/quote]

I didnt for a moment expect anyone to do it for free, but if you don't ask, you'll never know!!

Edit:

We got our logo sorted anyway...

Edited July 30, 2014 by Weststarx

[discreet]

[quote name='joeystrange' timestamp='1405962998' post='2507005']
Our guitarist is a great designer/illustrator. I mean, really really great!
[/quote]

That's funny - so is ours! [url="http://www.jimjohnstone.co.uk/"]http://www.jimjohnstone.co.uk/[/url]

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JamieMillsBass' timestamp='1406713931' post='2513948']
This isn't a dig at the OP (I've asked the same question as he has of people in the past), but why do people automatically assume that it's OK to ask for work in the 'creative industries' to be done for free?

Again, not a dig at the OP, just thought it might start a discussion.
[/quote]

Possibly because you don't have to work in a 'creative industry' to be creative? You also don't need to be a 'professional' to be good at something, though ’professionals' will frequently dispute that of course

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1405953293' post='2506867']
Can anyone recommend me somone who can do band logos?

Or if anyone is extremely kind enough to do it for free?

I have a rough sketch of what I want, I just need somone to make it look sexy.

Thanks for your help!
[/quote]

Depends on what your sketch is, and how easy it is to recreate...

Drop me a PM with your sketch and I'll let you know if it can be done for free / cheap

But if it ends up being like this sort of thing I promise not to be rude

[url="http://youtu.be/VfprIxNfCjk"]http://youtu.be/VfprIxNfCjk[/url]

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1406722614' post='2514061']
Depends on what your sketch is, and how easy it is to recreate...

Drop me a PM with your sketch and I'll let you know if it can be done for free / cheap

But if it ends up being like this sort of thing I promise not to be rude

[media]http://youtu.be/VfprIxNfCjk[/media]
[/quote]

That video pretty much sums up a designers life!

[JamieMillsBass]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1406714793' post='2513962']
I didnt for a moment expect anyone to do it for free, [b]but if you don't ask, you'll never know[/b]!!

Edit:

We got our logo sorted anyway...
[/quote]

Fair point!

[Big_Stu]

It's not just the little guys who expect cheap/free. I've worked at two printers who have closed due to constantly having their prices ground down, but with the dangled carrot of "other work" which rarely appeared; one was tied into a contract with a supermarket chain which always threatened to go abroad if their demands weren't met so their jobs lost money before the files even arrived. Another had a deal with a large group within the entertainment industry (think Leicester Sq & red carpets), the turnaround was so tight that it meant stacks of overtime. I worked out that it lost money every week at the moment the plates left the studio.

[JamieMillsBass]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1406722422' post='2514057']
Possibly because you don't have to work in a 'creative industry' to be creative? You also don't need to be a 'professional' to be good at something, though ’professionals' will frequently dispute that of course
[/quote]

It's a fair point you make, but it seems like the only industry where it really happens. If you wanted a small wall in your garden built, you wouldn't need a professional builder, just someone who can build a wall. It would be a reletavely small bit of work, but I doubt anyone would ask someone to come along and build it for free (lets say you are providing all the materials for building said wall, so that doesn't come into it)?

But, as the OP says, if you don't ask you don't get!

[flyfisher]

Fair point, but that could be because building a wall or doing a bit of plumbing involves physical work and materials whereas there's all sorts of stuff people can do at home with a PC for little more than a bit of their time. I can understand that some people are annoyed with being asked for a favour but there are also more generous types who enjoy helping out when they can. No harm in asking.

What I can't understand is why some people moan about such things. If they don't want to get out of bed without being paid for it then fair enough, but live and let live eh?

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1406743586' post='2514346']
Fair point, but that could be because building a wall or doing a bit of plumbing involves physical work and materials whereas there's all sorts of stuff people can do at home with a PC for little more than a bit of their time.
[/quote]

Fully disagree there. I'd say that it's much harder to quantify a designs value, and that's what makes people think they can get stuff for free/cheap. There's many designers, typesetters and the like on here who will argue with you all day about the artistry involved.

You usually get what you pay for.

[discreet]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1406743586' post='2514346']
Fair point, but that could be because building a wall or doing a bit of plumbing involves physical work and materials whereas there's all sorts of stuff people can do at home with a PC for little more than a bit of their time.
[/quote]

This makes me laugh. I did a typesetting apprenticeship during the change from hot metal to computer typesetting, and when the means of production was available to all, everyone thought 'great - I can do that now'. Cue some of the most horrendously-designed and executed typesetting in the history of the world by people with not a single clue about design.

It's not the physical effort you're paying for, it's the thought, care, experience, design, execution and production. Anyone can knock up a page in Word or cut and paste a bit of clip art, but it just isn't the same thing by a very long way.

Edited July 30, 2014 by discreet

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1406758602' post='2514572']


This makes me laugh. I did a typesetting apprenticeship during the change from hot metal to computer typesetting, and when the means of production was available to all, everyone thought 'great - I can do that now'. Cue some of the most horrendously-designed and executed typesetting in the history of the world by people with not a single clue about design.

It's not the physical effort you're paying for, it's the thought, care, experience, design, execution and production. Anyone can knock up a page in Word or cut and paste a bit of clip art, but it just isn't the same thing by a very long way.
[/quote]

Told you the typesetters would arrive!

[discreet]

[quote name='stingraybassman' timestamp='1406758237' post='2514567']
You usually get what you pay for.
[/quote]

So true, which is why we're met with a bottom-line avalanche of crappy design and print everywhere we turn. People don't see the value of good design or print because they don't understand it and worse, they don't want to. It's a shame.

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1406758846' post='2514575']
So true, which is why we're met with a bottom-line avalanche of crappy design and print everywhere we turn. People don't see the value of good design or print because they don't understand it and worse, they don't want to. It's a shame.
[/quote]

Amen to that brother.

[Happy Jack]

FCUK to the lot of 'em.

[JamieMillsBass]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1406743586' post='2514346']
Fair point, but that could be because building a wall or doing a bit of plumbing involves physical work and materials whereas there's all sorts of stuff people can do at home with a PC for little more than a bit of their time. I can understand that some people are annoyed with being asked for a favour but there are also more generous types who enjoy helping out when they can. No harm in asking.

[b]What I can't understand is why some people moan about such things. If they don't want to get out of bed without being paid for it then fair enough, but live and let live eh?[/b]
[/quote]

I can understand their veiw-point though. Let's put it into context that works for everyone here. You've studied music for years at University, can sight read, really know your stuff. So you start advertising for work, but can't get any because all the gigs are going to bedroom players who are offering the work for free (as they have a 9-5 job and can afford to). Would be pretty frustrating, no?

No the difference is, this would probably rarely happen, because any band/gig worth it's salt will realise that you, having been to university, having studied and mastered the skills required to be a session musician, they'll pay the money and take you over the bedroom dude (that's not to say he wouldn't be capable). But with graphic design, logo's etc the free guy always seems to get the gig.

I don't have an issue with people offering to do work for free, or bands asking for it, I just find it strange that it happens so often with that particular industry. I suppose it's something people going into it just have to deal with.

[Big_Stu]

A printers I used to work at used to have a conversation at least twice a week with various clients; I heard a sales guy saying this many, many times.

Him: "Eeeeerm, about this file you've sent us for your [i]*xyz*[/i] job?"
Customer: "Yeah?"
H: "Well it's RGB, you see, it needs to be CMYK for printing".
C: "Oh no, I'd no idea, what can I do? I really need that job"
H: "Well, don't worry, we can fix it for you - but it'll cost another £50-£60 to be able to do it"
C: (now hugely relieved at this massive favour) "Oh great, no problem, thanks very much".

He then calls us in the studio,
"Stu, that RGB file, can you make it CMYK please"
Me: click>click>Save (2 seconds) "Yeah, done it" [i]and that was only up until we changed plating software to one that did it automatically.[/i]

Or you get into the scenario that ALL designers have come across of a client who supplies a file off their web-site that's all of 12kb and doesn't believe you when you say it's useless for print. "But - it's what my last designer gave me to use". The same printers as above used to lose a fortune redrawing logos that a client couldn't get a file for but didn't want to pay for having it re-created.

I know a couple of good builders, a fair bit of their work is fixing DIY jobs that someone has hashed, or that a bloke down the pub did for a couple of pints - or free. Not ALL DIY jobs are cr*p, but when they are you need someone to go to to fix it. Same with many jobs.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1406795638' post='2514715']
I know a couple of good builders, a fair bit of their work is fixing DIY jobs that someone has hashed, or that a bloke down the pub did for a couple of pints - or free.
[/quote]

I recognise that from my own line of work, where I always get asked to iron out the mistakes in the work of others.
It annoys me no end, so I'm usually quite vocal about this, like:
"You can ask bloody Bach (or Mozart or Schönberg or Xenakis) to make his bloody mistakes for free! I don't iron them out for free! I'm a professional!!!"


Seriously though, even though I do dislike this expectation that creative workers do stuff for free, as if it was something that could be reasonably demanded instad of politely enquired about without much expectation, there is a rationale to it as well:
- as creative workers, my advertising agent need a £100K revenue before getting a reasonable income
- as basically a seller, I need a £200K revenue for the same
- my house building buddy needs a £300K revenue for it.
I appreciate the numbers will differ in another country, but my guess is the structure is there.

[Raggy]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1406795638' post='2514715']
A printers I used to work at used to have a conversation at least twice a week with various clients; I heard a sales guy saying this many, many times.

Him: "Eeeeerm, about this file you've sent us for your [i]*xyz*[/i] job?"
Customer: "Yeah?"
H: "Well it's RGB, you see, it needs to be CMYK for printing".
C: "Oh no, I'd no idea, what can I do? I really need that job"
H: "Well, don't worry, we can fix it for you - but it'll cost another £50-£60 to be able to do it"
C: (now hugely relieved at this massive favour) "Oh great, no problem, thanks very much".

He then calls us in the studio,
"Stu, that RGB file, can you make it CMYK please"
Me: click>click>Save (2 seconds) "Yeah, done it" [i]and that was only up until we changed plating software to one that did it automatically.[/i]

Or you get into the scenario that ALL designers have come across of a client who supplies a file off their web-site that's all of 12kb and doesn't believe you when you say it's useless for print. "But - it's what my last designer gave me to use". The same printers as above used to lose a fortune redrawing logos that a client couldn't get a file for but didn't want to pay for having it re-created.
[/quote]

Been there so many times

[Weststarx]

Well I think from a lot of people's point of view outside of the creative world they will see playing in a band or graphic design as someones hobby rather than a profession. Unless obviously you are a corporate customer asking for a designer to make you a company logo etc. or play music at their company event.

[quote name='JamieMillsBass' timestamp='1406793935' post='2514701']
No the difference is, this would probably rarely happen, because any band/gig worth it's salt will realise that you, having been to university, having studied and mastered the skills required to be a session musician, they'll pay the money and take you over the bedroom dude (that's not to say he wouldn't be capable).
[/quote]


Yes I would be extremely pissed if I'd spent years studying music to then not get a gig over a 'bedroom player' but in the creative industry it doesnt matter in the slightest what degree you have or where and what you've studied because at the end of the day the art you produce is all that matters. You are only as good as your last performance.

From an idiots point of view, if you looked at two pieces of art hanging on the wall, one was painted by an 'amateur' and the other by someone who studied art for 5 years at university, you wouldnt even think twice about the artists background and you would buy whichever one you liked.

I think if you get into something creative that is something you've got to expect. Its just the way the industry works.

Qualifications matter in some industries and they dont in others.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Weststarx

[discreet]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1406804440' post='2514824']
Qualifications matter in some industries and they don't in others.
[/quote]

How true. If only I'd left my room in a total mess and sold my bed at Christie's for £2.4m instead of tidying up, as usual. D'oh!!

[mrtcat]

I'm a joiner carpenter and I never do any work for free for anyone except my close family. I have absolutely no problem with anyone asking me to work for free as long as they don't mind when I say no.