Bottesini Bow Selector Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [color=#4b0082][font=comic sans ms,cursive]Hello I’m a newbie to forum posting and to double bass playing.[/font][/color] [color=#4b0082][font=comic sans ms,cursive] I’ve recently started to play upright bass in a band that appears to be drowning me out. To compensate I’m using amplification I usually use for my Fender solid body. This was a compromise in terms of authentic sound. I’ve noticed I have lost some of the nuances of the double bass original sound. Feedback is the main enemy and I’m exploring the use of preamp EQ’s to combat this. I currently have a Boss GEB 7 I used to use with a five string solid body guitar but looking around I came across the Fishman pro-eq platinum. I haven’t tried it yet. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Any ideas on Preamp EQ’s? Or experience in the best way of fighting feedback when more volume is required?[/font][/color] [color=#4b0082][font=comic sans ms,cursive] Yours thoughts are most welcome.[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Welcome to the dark side. Prepare to be troubled by this for the rest of your life ... so embrace it and enjoy! You're covering the two essential problems of amplifying double bass here ... replicating natural acoustic sound, and getting feedback-free volume. [b]Natural tone:[/b] You can pretty much forget trying to recreate acoustic sound by any other way than sticking a microphone in front of your bass. The only flaw in this method is that you're still mighty prone to feedback, so only low volume works really well, and you need some separation from the bloody drummer. But it's the only way. Otherwise, various combinations of piezo pick-ups and microphones can get a pretty natural acoustic tone, but it will never be the real sound of the bass (to your ears at least ... fine to the audience). The task is just to decide what sort of tone you like, and find the right pickups to do it. For jazz at low volume, a David Gage Realist is all you'll need to add some prominence to your bottom end. Many jazzers claim it gives natural tone - I won't have it, my theory is they're used mainly in situations where the acoustic mids and highs of the bass cut through enough on their own, the realist just lifts the bottom end to make the whole thing appear louder. My personal favourite for cheap, simple, controllable, reliable, comfortable tone is the Underwood pickup. Never goes wrong. Your amp will make a difference too - most bass amps have their own characteristics and colour the sound. Great for e-bass ... death to a natural double bass sound. Research the various 'transparent' bass amps that upright players like ... I like Markbass, there are plenty other options. [b]Feedback[/b]: Is your pickup is properly mounted? (You don't mention what sort you have ... some are notoriously prone to feedback). A wing pick up too tightly or loosely fitted can pinch the sound, force you into too much gain and signal:noise ratio ... all leading to more feedback. Next thing is your EQ/preamp settings. Keep gain down, try not to go too far over mid way. Use master volume to control level. Some people actually crank master control all the way up and adjust gain to set stage level - which ensures gain is at lowest level possible. If your pre-amp has a phase switch, try it ... can sometimes suddenly remove feedback at the flick of a switch. If your preamp has a low-cut/depth control use that too ... it can ditch barely audible low frequencies and tighten up your sound - both more natural and less feedback prone. Some people go for 31 band EQs which mean you can dial out feedback frequencies. I'm sure it works, but it's a bit overkill really. Also, don't fall into the mistake of automatically scooping your EQ ... unlike ebass, you'll almost always want to cut some of the bottom end to avoid a boomy, muddy sound that suffers from bottom end feedback. Fishman Pro Platinum is a great bit of kit. A bit bulky, but a one stop double bass tamer: - Phase switch - Depth (=low cut) control - Very sensitive, well selected EQ bands - Compressor - Transparent sound - Line, Tuner and DI outs ... What more could you want? (Yes I use one ... ) Just don't bother with the BP100 pickup .. nasty scratchy nasal devil's work. If you have to have a Fishman have a Full Circle. Boss GEB7 is widely used and very effective, use it for now. Just don't boost the gain too much ... ANd make sure you have a Boss power supply unless you want lots of hissy noise... Another option - damping/muffling. I use f-hole covers to cut the acoustic volume. Others find them a cheat, but they work in an instant, no feedback! Others use foam wedges under tailpiece/neck to dampen the vibration of the bass body. That works too, though no doubt affects the overall resonance of your bass, and so subtly affects the tone too. You can always use a mag pickup and steel strings too ... combined with a piezo you can get certain great tones (Ian Jennings for example), but to my ear there'll always be a hint of e-bass to it... plus it's just wrong ) Ultimately, your best amplified tone may not be quite like the bass itself.. indeed it may even be better. For example, I get better amplified tone from two of my basses than the third - although that one has the best acoustic tone of the lot. Happy fiddling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Contender for best reply ever Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottesini Bow Selector Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Paul King, I like the cut of your jib Sir! I have some experimenting to do. Regarding current equipment, my pick up is a Fishman Shadow SH 955 NFX Nanoflex Pickup with Preamp. Is that what you call "underwood"? My amp is a Orange Terror Bass Hybrid with Trace Elliot 4 x10 & 1 x18 speakers. 1000 watts. Overkill, I know; I was playing Reggae Rock Fusion in my previous band. If my Bass Fairy Godmother granted me a wish to choose an acoustic sensitive bass amp, I've been reading about the A.E.R. Basscube 2, would that be a good choice? It would certainly be easier to haul into the back of the car. I have not come across one second hand. The price tag made me do an impression of a car mechanic prior to an expensive quote. I have not seen one under £2000 pounds sterling. Thank you for the insightful advice. I will try cheap and cheerful first with cost effective adjustments such as [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]damping/muffling, use of F-hole covers, EQ-ing and I'll see if I can splash out on a [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Fishman Pro Platinum. Not sure if this is the darkside though. Woiuld that make you Vader or Yoda?[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't know that pick up well so can't comment - sits under feet of bridge like a Realist doesn't it? Shadow make good pick ups though, so I'd stick with it now unless you just can't get good results. Their SH950 wing pickup is a direct copy of the classic Underwood http://www.underwoodpickups.com ... although, as many people only use one element of the Underwood pickup, the Shadow single element version always seemed a good bet! Shadow available from Thomann.com, Underwood only on eBay or direct from States with ridiculous duty to pay. Often can pick one up for £30-£60 on eBay , pounce if you see one, can always pass on at no loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbass Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Lots of good advice above. In any loud band feedback through your DB is the main enemy I think. My personal experience: I experimented with several pre-amps, piezos and a Schaller magnetic DB pickup before settling on AKG C 411 P contact mic and Kent Armstrong mag pickup. I blend these through Bose ToneMatch but other mixers will do. Notch filters are very useful because the DB body makes your instrument into a huge microphone with several resonant frequencies that cause feedback. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with your amplification set-up (as long as you don't mind lugging it around) but the sound might be a bit "muddy" in comparison to cleaner amps like Phil Jones or A.E.R. Using ebay to buy and sell your experimental set-ups is a way of minimising the cost of what can otherwise be an expensive journey through trial and error. Listening to other people's set-ups is a very good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) i had awful feedback touble as i play pretty loud I ended up fitting a second sound post which kills the bass acoustically but cures the feedback very well,the bass still sounds the same when amplified. If we play a boomy room i also use some foam f-hole covers. I used a Plat Pro for a while but wasn't happy with the tone i had once a had dialed out the feedback so opted for the extra sound post. Edited August 8, 2014 by artisan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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