and todays quiz is.........advice needed on amps

[donslow]

Hey all, I am new to this forum and relatively new to the art of bass playing being primarily a guitar player, I needed to be able to enjoy playing again and six stringing has become a little stale for me, picked up the bass, never looking back

Currently own a heavily modified squier VM precision (new bridge, pickups, wiring to name but a few) and a tc electronic bh500 head with a 2x10 and 1x15 ashdown cabinets

I'm looking for advice on a new amp as I'm not too knowledgeable on bass amps

I play in a blues / blues rock band ifluenced by the likes of Rory Gallagher, faces, taj mahal, etta james, early Fleetwood Mac, loads really,

I'm looking for a new bass amp/cabinets, what I'm after is the following
Vintage tone
Minimum 400w (very loud guitarist and drummer and I'm concerned anything less just won't cut it, obviously advice is will be well heeded)
Valve ideally but am open to suggestions of ANYTHING
Something that will do blues and rock very well

Any help/advice/suggestions GREATLY appreciated

Answers on a postcard to..........

[Dad3353]

Good evening, donslow...

Sorry, no postcards on hand, but a detail of your post caught my attention. If by 'Valve, ideally...' you mean an amp with a valve power amp, rather than merely valve pre-amp, may I suggest that your minimum wattage could be seriously revised downwards..? An all-valve 100w amp is very loud (depending, of course, on cabs used...); a 200w valve amp is a bunker breaker. There are a few 400w valve amps, but they are really for playing Wembley stadium, and require imposing cab arrays if all that power is to be unleashed. Vintage tone, certainly, and traditionally ideal for blues/rock. The downsides are to be taken into account, such as the much heavier load-in/load-out, rather more fragile (especially original vintage models..) and the lack of modern facilities, such as DI out, or tuner jacks on most older models.
We use a Hiwatt DR205, a 200w PA head, which delivers clean bass up to the sky. If 'grit' was required (we don't want that, but some do...), then pedals would be highly recommended, as the KT88 valves won't break up until the walls start crumbling and the windows have long since been blown out. It's been said many times, and the explanations are diverse, but 'valve' watts and 'solid-state' watts are very different.
Just my tuppence-worth; hope this helps.

[donslow]

Thank you for your reply, some info definitely worth chewing over there
If I can make it any clearer basically, I'm after an amp that will stay clean, still have plenty of power for most uses and will cover blues and/or blues rock well

After reading up people basically just say valve amp for vintage tone so its a little ominous as you can see so I'm after suggestions of any kind, I'm lost with bass amps completely, ask me about guitar amps and I'll talk all day,

Its just power/wattage that concerns me, as I say we play loud, very loud and my current head keeps up reasonably well hence my thinking of minimum 400w I'm just worried that I'll spend money on a new rig and have to dime it to be heard

This getting confusing even for me now, I'm not sure what I want/need :-s

I know I'm after vintage tone from my amp just don't know how to go about getting it and unsure of how much power I'd realistically need to be looking for

Does ANY of that make any sense?!

[donslow]

Basically, I THINK I'm after an amp and cab setup that will give me vintage-y tone, nice clean, clear bass thump that will work for old school blues / blues rock but have NO idea where to start, to the point where I don't even know which brands to start with

[Dad3353]

Donslow...

As you're Stateside, I'd suggest you cast a glance at the Fender Bassman 135w valve amp, into a Fender Bassman 2 x 15 cab, equipped with JBL K140's. That'll be pretty damned loud, with 'old school' tone. There's a Musicman equivalent if you want a bit more recent, which will equally do the job. Neither, however, are a 'lightweight' solution.
Volume will come more from judicious choice of cab(s...) more than from sheer amp power. Doubling up with a second, identical, cab will be more efficient than doubling the amp power, but you'll need a small truck to carry the stuff. This may not be a problem for you.

[donslow]

Thank you for your help and advice so far, I did look at the bassmans actually but was concerned by the apparent low wattage, I could tell you what wattage needed for what on guitar amps but need educating in bass counterparts, what cabs would be the best for a bassman in your opinion?

[donslow]

Oh, and I'm UK based if that makes any difference

[BassTractor]

Normally, for this I'd propose you test a BH 500 and some TC BC or Ashdown cabs...
So my question would be what, if anything, is wrong with what you've already got?

Also,
have you judged the different sounds you get when connecting one of your cabs only? It might just be you love the sound of one of those, and would just need another one of that same model.


Whilst Ashdown's combination of a 115 and 410 has a certain reputation of working well, there is no general rule of any combi of 15s and 10s sounding good, and there are some technical issues that make it at the very least a case of testing before buying. Getting another one of the cab you like, however, by large is risk free.

That said, if you do wish for a new set, the first thing we need to know is a budget.

I also wonder where you get the 400W number from. You aren't by any chance under the wrong impression that that is twice as loud as 200W? I have to ask, see, as we need to establish what we're talking about here.

[Highfox]

I tell you what, I like the new Fender Rumble series, I have the 500 combo. Give them a try if you can. Separate head and speakers might suit you more.

[HowieBass]

I think we need to know how you're using your current bass/amp first before we can advise on where to go in your pursuit of a more 'vintage' sound. Is your current sound too harsh, or too muddy? What strings are you using? Nickel roundwounds sound warmer than steel rounds and flatwound strings sound very different to roundwound. Do you play with a pick or fingerstyle? Do you have the P bass tone knob wide open or dialled back a little? Are you using the tube tone effect on the BH500 head? Are you engaging the contour control (which scoops the mids)? How are you setting your tone controls? All of these factor into your sound and it's probably worth experimenting with what you have right now before concluding that you need to change your rig...

[deanovw]

As others have said, I think your current setup is ideal. I wouldn't change anything. Try out the tube tone settings.

[donslow]

Please do excuse me gentlemen but this is where my stupidity comes into full force.........

Some very good questions/points made

Currently using my gear for rehearsals and the occasional gig of varying size rooms. When at rehearsal I tend to use the studios trace Elliot cabinets which are a 1x15 and 2x10 setup also

Currently playing with d'darrio (sp?) Flatwounds, normally my tone knob is all the way down on my guitar as anything else seems too.......snappy

It's hard to describe what I want as I'm not up on my terminology so to speak, but I just feel quite dissatisfied with my current tone, I hear players like Gerry macavoy, Donald dunn, and even a lot more "modern" players and they seem to have a very.......bassy :-s tone but it all sounds very clear and clean also, that's what I'm after, I have tinkered with my amp settings for hours at a time on all volume levels but I just can't seem to get bassy yet clear

Have tried the tube tone control on my amp but it seems to get quite, growly, to my ears, if I roll off the volume with tube tone up its clean but too quiet

I play with fingers exclusively

Is it worth do you think changing my 2x10 for a 4x10 ?! Would that make much difference?!

I feel quite stupid with these seemingly idiotic questions so please do excuse me

Plus, playing the music I'm playing currently I figured if I get a more vintage sounding amp, it might seem a little more, authentic :-s

Truth be told, no matter how much I tinker with my amp settings, I'm still just not doing it right so that's why I seek help and advice from the guys that know what their talking about, basschatters

Many thanks so far and once again, apologies for my idiocy

[donslow]

Not under the impression that 400w is twice as loud as 200w I'm an idiot but not that stupid hahaha

Only plucked 400w as after a lot of reading, I have found a lot of gigging bass players amps seem to be this sort of rating or above, maybe I'm just reading the wrong articles maybe but I guessed that 400w would be a rating to which I could be prepared for anything

[HowieBass]

Just read up on Gerry McAvoy and I think he said he used RS66 steel roundwound strings and looking at a video of him with Rory's band I think he was playing with a pick plus it sounded to me like he'd backed off his tone control quite a bit so first off I suggest you change strings and playing technique and see where that gets you.

[Japhet]

From your description of the tone you're after I'd recommend a Genz Benz Streamliner. These have a very 'old school' vibe about them with a big, fat sound and a very usable EQ. Pair up with a 2x12 cab and you'll be flying my friend.

[Lozz196]

Yep, Genz Benz Streamliner - if you can get hold of one - Aguliar Tonehammer, or new Fender Rumble would be my suggestions for the sound described.

Tho am surprised that the TC doesn`t get the sound wanted. I had a TC Classic 450 and had Bass, Hi-Mid & Treble at 0, Low-Mid on -1. Spectracomp & Tubetone on +4. Used with a Precision and old Rotosound roundwounds I got a very vintagey sound. I always thought the TC on its own was a bit weedy sounding but in the mix it really translated well.

[JapanAxe]

[b]donslow[/b] (if that is indeed you real name!), if you are anywhere near Swindon you are welcome to come and try any of my kit (see below), and bring your own rig for comparison. Both my gigging amps have a valve front end; the power amps are traditional solid state (Ampeg) and Class D (Genz Benz). I also have the all-valve Selmer - at 50W it is not really up for gigging, but at least you would get an idea of the sound.

Oh, and I also speak fluent guitar

[donslow]

Japanaxe thank you for the offer but nowhere near swindon unfortunately

I will definitely look into the genz Benz for sure, will also try the suggested settings for the tc

Thank you for all your help so far has been a real insight, keep it coming

[brensabre79]

Hey there. You'll probably inundated with people telling you that the amp they own is the best one for you.

Allow me to be the first.

Seriously though. What's wrong with the rig you're running?

If you want All-Valve 400W plus you must be playing with some SERIOUSLY LOUD people! And your options are very limited there. but don't despair, valve watts are very different to solid state watts!

I would suggest you probably don't need 400W all valve, 200 - 300 will suffice for most stadium gigs, and THE classic bass rig is an Ampeg SVT 2. That'll sound as vintage as they come - with the right cab (8x10). But these days they are not so fashionable as technology has moved on...

If that's out of your price range you could look at the Bugera clone of this amp BVV3000 i think... but stay clear of their speaker cabs.

You could look at the Mesa Boogie Bass Strategy - also very very loud and expensive all valve. Or a bit closer to home there are amps by Orange and Ashdown before you go down the custom route and look at Matamp.

All of the above are all=valve, very heavy and expensive amps. Which is why everyone except the tone-junkies these days uses solid state stuff, its 99% as good

In that case you have an entire world of amps open to you, one of which you already have. I've heard Markbass stuff can sound vintage in the right hands, I personally love my Carvin BX500 which can do crispy hi-fi to thumping muddy lo-fi. they also do a 1600w version of this if you need more volume.

In short though, whilst everyone will have recommendations. the best thing you can do is get down to a well stocked bass emporium near you, and try stuff

[Happy Jack]

All the above is true.

If you're used to Class D solid-state 500W amps, then you will be utterly staggered at how loud a 200W all-valve can go.

And you will utterly stagger along under the weight of the damned thing, typically over 25Kg and sometimes much more.

Form follows function ... where will you be playing? If you're mainly looking at pub & club gigs, then don't buy anything until you've tried an Orange Terror Bass 500. It's very much a one-trick pony, but that trick is almost exactly what you've described as your target. Run one through a Barefaced Compact (no tweeter) and you have a rig that's a one-handed lift from the carpark but will do at least 90% of what you want.

If you're as obsessed with old-school tone as I am, try a Demeter pre-amp into a clean power amp (maybe a PA power amp). The VTBP-201 is ideal for this, really warm and smooth. A Barefaced might be a bit too 'transparent' with that rig.

If you're absolutely determined to go all-valve, then be prepared to throw some serious money around. The ideal solution might be an Orange AD200 into an Orange 410, plus the cost of the roadies you'll need to move it, and a supply of ear-plugs to your audience at the Dog & Duck.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I can't imagine your current setup would be lacking in volume or power. Have you considered something like a Tech 21 preamp pedals? Loads on here swear by the VT Bass pedal but I love the Leeds, You can use them either as a standard pedal or run it into the effects return of your amp, effectively bypassing the preamp and just using the power stage. That way all your tone is coming from the pedal. Lovely vintage happiness all day long. And considerably cheaper than buying a while new rig!

[bassmachine2112]

Orange Terror Bass 500,perfect add cab/cabs of choice.
Loud and then goes Louder still,if not enough Terror 1000 heaven forbid,just make sure cabs can take it

[Pembo]

Donslow! I was trying to solve a similair dilemma, but not requiring the power you appear to be after. I was seeking that vintage, clean, yet warm tone. You could try using a Markbass with a VT pedal in front. Markbass amps, by rule, are very clean and tight. The VT pedal could add a bit of warmth/growl if required. A few suggestions in this thread http://basschat.co.uk/topic/237504-different-amp-vs-pedal/page__p__2457979__hl__sa450__fromsearch__1#entry2457979

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Before buying a new amp, maybe consider that your EQ settings might be the root cause of your problems if you can't be heard or feel you are running out of headroom.

Low frequencies are hard work for the speaker and amp, so you might find that by cutting rather than boosting the low frequencies you will get better performance at war volume from your existing kit.

[xgsjx]

I'd be inclined to say swap your 15 for another 2x10 (& stack vertically) or swap for 2 1x15s, turn back a slight on the lows & increase the low mids.
Watts don't make decibels, so don't get caught up in needing X amount of watts (as BassTractor said, double the watts doesn't make double the volume, you need 10x the watts for that).
Also don't get caught up in thinking big drivers for lows & small for tops, speaker mass moves air (so the more speaker area overall, the more air getting moved), then it's down to cab design to make the most of that moving air.

Another option would be to keep your amp & buy better, more efficient cabs.

BTW, I'll second Markbass for plenty volume & keeping clean.