MIM Jazz Conundrum

[PlungerModerno]

Hello all.

I've recently traded my way into being the proud owner of a MIM Jazz

[attachment=167766:Jazz_top.JPG]

I'm pretty close to loving this bass - but a few things make me less than overjoyed.

[b](i) [/b] It's got two neck pickups - no noise cancelling setting as it has two pickups wound the same way*.

[size=3] [b] *It's a 2000's MIM Jazz - I think they were like this for a few years. I've measured them and the covers are both around 91 mm wide.[/b][/size]
[size=3] [b]It's also very sensitive to noise with no change with both pickups open... I want to have the noise cancelling mode and the option of fitting a standard noise cancelling pickup set.[/b][/size]

[b](ii)[/b] It's black with a white pickguard - I'm hooked on white with a cream/white pickguard...

[b](iii)[/b] It's got a rosewood fingerboard - I'm hooked on maple (with the paint & pickguard from (ii) ).

So I have a bitteen of a conundrum on my hands (yes, I'm Irish ).


I am pretty certain that I'll take a loss on the Jazz I have - I can take a bit of a hit for a Jazz that balances, plays, sounds and looks the way I dream .

I want to get a Jazz like this:



I'd prefer to play the bass before I buy it, but since I'm after this very specific set of options, that mightn't happen .
I can flex on the colour but not on the maple board .

So I've some puzzles to figure out first:

[b]1. Can I get a dealer (I've a fender one on my doorstep) to order a bass, and exchange it if it's 9.5 lbs +, without significant fees?[/b]

[b]2. Can I order a bass online (e.g. Thomann, Ssweetwater, bassdirect, gak) and exchange it if it's very heavy or dinged, without significant fees if the above option doesn't work out?[/b]

I'm going to see what the local shop and dealer have in stock - I might get [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NV6Rdv1a3I"]lucky[/url] . I know I can ask them about the above and ordering. I can live with my current Jazz for a few months. I'll start reading fine print on the online sites soon, any advice is welcome.

Sorry for the long post. I'm finding the single coil sound is going to my head.

Edited July 28, 2014 by PlungerModerno

[PlungerModerno]

I just weighed the bass, I fugured it was about 9 lbs.

Turns out it's about 9.6 lbs.

With the Jazz body style I'll probably not get one noticably lighter, but it'd be nice to get one closer to 9 than 10 or elven pounds.
Hence my strong desire to try it before I pay for it!

[theyellowcar]

Thomann will allow you to return a bass within 30 days no questions asked - I think it might cost you between €20-€30 to cover the return shipping, but that feels like a decent risk if it means getting to trial the bass of your dreams with no commitment

[Truckstop]

Not sure if you can get standard MIM Fenders with maple boards? I think some special run models and signature models do but obviously they'll cost more so part exchanging looks less attractive.

Personally, I'd swap out the neck for a maple one. Cost effective and it'll look great with a black body and white guard!

Truckstop

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='theyellowcar' timestamp='1406530000' post='2512073']
Thomann will allow you to return a bass within 30 days no questions asked - I think it might cost you between €20-€30 to cover the return shipping, but that feels like a decent risk if it means getting to trial the bass of your dreams with no commitment
[/quote]

I discovered pretty much that in their T&C page here: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/faq_question_general_terms_and_conditions_of_business.html"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/faq_question_general_terms_and_conditions_of_business.html[/url]

I think they have a special 14 day regulation because of German law, but they apply the general terms to the 30 day period.
They even offer "Free-way coupons" a deal whereby the return slip in each package/bundle can be used to freepost the package back - in the original, hopefully adaquate, packaging. Their very good support and decent pricing make them a solid option. I'll still try the local store first.

I tend to support thomann for a range of bits I can't get locally.
If I can get a reasonable price & return option - [i]and[/i] I get to play the bass before tansacting I'll be a bit happier.
Of course I'll need to put a major deposit before an order is placed so I kinda need to consider that if they don't happen to have a bass I can live with...

I'm kinda just thinking out loud with much of this thread. The hot weather leaves me a little light on sleep - hence myself being even more long-winded than usual .

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1406533004' post='2512096']
Not sure if you can get standard MIM Fenders with maple boards? I think some special run models and signature models do but obviously they'll cost more so part exchanging looks less attractive.

Personally, I'd swap out the neck for a maple one. Cost effective and it'll look great with a black body and white guard!

Truckstop
[/quote]

Thanks, But I love the neck that's on it - I could go down the mod route - get a maple fb neck, route a few mm out of the rear pickup cavity to fit the 94 mm regular bridge pickup size (give or take a mm) and then maybe consider a refin if I feel the need...

It would be doable, but I don't want to hack into such a nice instrument, I just want one that has the 2 things this one doesn't: standard pickups and a maple board. And the easiest (and cheapest!) route is to leave this honey as she is, and move onto a stock MIM with what I want already on it.
If I had a router in a bench setup - and the skill to use it - and a set of std pickups already - and/or had a suitable neck "ready to go" It'd work out way cheaper than buying a new bass and selling on the one I have at about 50 - 60% new price (at best).

As it is I'd be too scared of spoiling the one I have. I recently copper sheilded the cavities (they were just woodgrain and regular paint) and was hoping for a vast improvement - but singlecoils will be singlecoils. from the front It'll still pickup any EMF noise loud and clear.

Am I right in assuming the reverse winding on the standard bridge pickup has a significant cancelling feature when fully combined with the standard neck pickup? Let's see... [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Jazz_Bass"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Jazz_Bass[/url]

Yup: [i]"Pickups are RWRP (reverse wound, reverse polarity) from one another, so all hum will be canceled when both pickups are at full volume."[/i]

The twin neck pickups in my bass aren't RWRP - even though they sound really good to me .

Again this is me thinking aloud.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am excited.

[PlungerModerno]

PS: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_standard_jazz_bass_mn_aw_2011.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._mn_aw_2011.htm[/url] - MIM Jazzes can come with maple or rosewood fingerboards as standard...
And I might look into neck options and the cost of a bridge pickup before pulling the trigger.

I could definately live with a Geddy Lee esque Jazz:



Thanks for the suggestion.

PSPSPS: [url="http://www.fender.com/store/jazz-bass-necks/jazz-bass-neck-20-medium-jumbo-frets-maple-fingerboard/"]this[/url] is exactly what I'd be looking towards - but I'll need to go through the dealer... still should be as good as an allparts - with the right decal!

plus I'd be able to afford some of those supposedly good alnico V custom shop pickups with the money I'd save.

Interesting.

Still terrified about making the [s]extra 3 to 5 mm[/s][b]* [/b]I'd need to fit the standard bridge pickup in...
[b][size=3]*about 2.6 mm from the seymour duncan diagrams[/size][/b]

Looking at these diagrams from the seymour duncan website:

[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/sjb-3b.shtml"]bridge[/url] and [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/sjb-3n.shtml"]neck[/url] pickups seem to have different mounting screw spacings...

I'll need to plan carefully to co-ordinate such a project. protecting the finish and filling and repiloting the screws... I'd be tempted to shell out for a local luthier to do it for me. It'd probably end up costing a fair bit more however. I could probably flog the rosewood fb neck and recoup some of the cost though!.

Edited July 28, 2014 by PlungerModerno

[Truckstop]

Don't want to put you on a downer because I know you're really excited about this project, but it really is much easier and much cheaper to wait for the model you want to come up for sale. I bet hundreds of guys on this site can empathise!

Decent refinish will be £300+, refit the neck will be £150+ and a new pickup and guard could be £75 and at the end of the day you still have a MIM Jazz.

A new neck will only be £100 and if it doesn't suit you can sell it on for more or less the same price. Fender Jazz necks tend to be made to a template so won't be that much of a difference between a new one and the one you currently have on your instrument.

I once had a MIM Jazz 5 which I thought I'd take to the grave with me. Upgraded pups, got a John East J Retro, refinished it in Oly White and then ended up selling it at a massive loss a few months later. Sometimes you love an instrument because of what it is, not because of what it could be! I'm not a fan of the colour of my current no.1 (Oly white); I much prefer black. But I love it and if I refinished it or replaced it it simply wouldn't be the same bass that I love playing.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, it's your stuff to do with whatever you want!

Cheers,

Alex

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1406535987' post='2512121']
Don't want to put you on a downer because I know you're really excited about this project, but it really is much easier and much cheaper to wait for the model you want to come up for sale. I bet hundreds of guys on this site can empathise!

Decent refinish will be £300+, refit the neck will be £150+ and a new pickup and guard could be £75 and at the end of the day you still have a MIM Jazz.

A new neck will only be £100 and if it doesn't suit you can sell it on for more or less the same price. Fender Jazz necks tend to be made to a template so won't be that much of a difference between a new one and the one you currently have on your instrument.

I once had a MIM Jazz 5 which I thought I'd take to the grave with me. Upgraded pups, got a John East J Retro, refinished it in Oly White and then ended up selling it at a massive loss a few months later. Sometimes you love an instrument because of what it is, not because of what it could be! I'm not a fan of the colour of my current no.1 (Oly white); I much prefer black. But I love it and if I refinished it or replaced it it simply wouldn't be the same bass that I love playing.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, it's your stuff to do with whatever you want!

Cheers,

Alex
[/quote]

No probs, I appreciate the input.
I'm not sure I'd refinish this bass - black is pretty neutral - like white it's not so much a colour as a shade.
Looking at the cost of getting the bridge pickup route expanded, add to the cost of the partial resheild, redrilling for the slightly bigger bridge spec pickup mountings, even if I leave the neck as is - it'll still be parts + labour well into the €300+ range, especially if I get a
...fitted to line up the strings more accurately on the poles. that plus pickup fitting & wiring, plus a setup, isn't gonna be too cheap. even a used neck at €150 won't put me much ahead of buying a newish bass, and flogging what I got.

I'll think about it, it's no massive deal.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1406542070' post='2512194']
You could consider having the pickups re-wound- or one of them at least. Shouldn't be crazy expensive, and would save routing just for the sake of the hum-cancelling.
[/quote]

It'd probably mean rebuilding the pickup - making it reverse polarity - then rewinding in the opposite direction.

Now that I think about it - their may be a way to fit a fairly lightly wound bridge pickup into a neck pickup cover... I'd need to look into that.

I probably won't make a decision for a few weeks. It can't hurt to look into a pickup rebuild.

Thanks for the input!

PS: A quick search put me onto these: [url="http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-60-jazz-j-bass-pickup.html"]http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-60-jazz-j-bass-pickup.html[/url]
Another option!

Edited July 28, 2014 by PlungerModerno

[hubrad]

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1406546535' post='2512253']
It'd probably mean rebuilding the pickup - making it reverse polarity - then rewinding in the opposite direction.

Now that I think about it - their may be a way to fit a fairly lightly wound bridge pickup into a neck pickup cover... I'd need to look into that.

I probably won't make a decision for a few weeks. It can't hurt to look into a pickup rebuild.

Thanks for the input!

PS: A quick search put me onto these: [url="http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-60-jazz-j-bass-pickup.html"]http://www.creamery-...ass-pickup.html[/url]
Another option!
[/quote]
If you send both pickups to a pickup maker they'll be able to match the two together.
You can also get replacement sets in short-short format (Mex Fender pickups are ok but nowt special) such as http://www.emgpickups.com/bass/j-models/active/mjset.html

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1406547835' post='2512276']
If you send both pickups to a pickup maker they'll be able to match the two together.
You can also get replacement sets in short-short format (Mex Fender pickups are ok but nowt special) such as [url="http://www.emgpickups.com/bass/j-models/active/mjset.html"]http://www.emgpickup...tive/mjset.html[/url]
[/quote]

I'd be lost without the pickups . . . but I'd survive. I didn't think of checking for off the shelf replacements. I contacted the creamery about a custom set - It'll probably work out a little more expensive than a standard short-short drop in set - but will likely sound a bit better. 60's spacing with 60's specs might sound pretty good. I'll have to see how it pans out though. Anything is better than modding the route and needing refinish work .

[HowieBass]

You ought to be able to get a couple of noiseless pickups of the same length as a direct replacement, something like a DiMarzio DP123S (short)? Likely cost is about £100 though. Doesn't make your Jazz the colour and fingerboard combo you desire but at least the bass becomes eminently playable.

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/bass/standard-bass/dimarzio-model-j

Just measured my Squier active Jazz and the stock pickups are the same length - roughly 92mm, hidden pole pieces and perfectly silent when soloed.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1406553295' post='2512341']
You ought to be able to get a couple of noiseless pickups of the same length as a direct replacement, something like a DiMarzio DP123S (short)? Likely cost is about £100 though. Doesn't make your Jazz the colour and fingerboard combo you desire but at least the bass becomes eminently playable.

[url="http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/bass/standard-bass/dimarzio-model-j"]http://www.dimarzio....imarzio-model-j[/url]

Just measured my Squier active Jazz and the stock pickups are the same length - roughly 92mm, hidden pole pieces and perfectly silent when soloed.
[/quote]

Cool, I can always take an extra option or two.

I should add - I'm somewhat hesitant to go straight for a noiseless set - I'm really enjoying the passive, open single-coil sounds. I know some better noiseless pickups don't affect that noticeably but I'd prefer to stay with the original simple electronics unless noise becomes unbearable.

Edited July 28, 2014 by PlungerModerno

[PlungerModerno]

OK. I am a happy bunny. Thanks to your suggestions of looking at pickup options (Jus Luckin, hubrad, and howiebass) I came across this: [url="http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-60-jazz-j-bass-pickup.html"]http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-60-jazz-j-bass-pickup.html[/url]

Made contact, thought I'd give it a try. Well I got the custom J set. Huge difference. The alnico V pickups are near silent compared to the stock pups. They also have a deeper, richer tonal characteristics.
I've just restrung my jazz with my broken in TI flats. It's really sweet!

[Geek99]

I've had one from that year and it was silent once copper shielded

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1410160271' post='2546567']
I've had one from that year and it was silent once copper shielded
[/quote]

Cool. For my one it only cut the noise down about 30%. New pickups have 1% of the previous (stock) pickups noise when both on, 10% or less when soloed.

[Geek99]

Did you use copper foil with electrically conductive glue ? Use a multimeter to check - mine had only 0.008 ohm resistance between jack socket and furthest point away

You probably have a break somewhere

Thought : you did join the shielding to earth right ? You can curl some up under the bell plate

Edited September 8, 2014 by Geek99

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1410164429' post='2546609']
Did you use copper foil with electrically conductive glue ? Use a multimeter to check - mine had only 0.008 ohm resistance between jack socket and furthest point away

You probably have a break somewhere

Thought : you did join the shielding to earth right ? You can curl some up under the bell plate
[/quote]

Aye, I checked with the multimeter - no real resistance. I used the conductive adhesive type of foil. I should mention my definition of noise is if it buzzes or blips when close to a harddrive or monitor.
Even with the stock pickups when facing away from the source of noise ( the running PC) the shielding cut down noise to near zero. The two neck pickups however had a hiss in every position.
Now with RWRP pickups, when they're both on they humcancel pretty much perfectly. I need to be biased towards one pickup and a few inches from a EMF source to have any serious noise. Hiss is slight when pickups are biased - but they're single coils so it is what it is!

[Geek99]

Sounds ok then - must be a fault on the stock pickups as mine was perfectly behaved with stock pups. Could be your house wiring making if worse

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1410166729' post='2546633']
Sounds ok then - must be a fault on the stock pickups as mine was perfectly behaved with stock pups. Could be your house wiring making if worse
[/quote]

Aye - it might have been a little from column A and a little from column B.
First time with single coils so I was really noticing the noise ( I've played PJ's before but the J was always backed off).

[Geek99]

Matte_black from this forum makes very fine split cool noiseless pickups to order. Try him perhaps

Make sure you quote the sizes to him if you do order

[uk_lefty]

I have a similar era MIM jazz. The stock pickups were ok but replaced them with Bartolinis both the same size. I still needed to create a bit of space for a mm or so in the bridge pickup cavity but te bass is fairly scratched up anyway so I did it with a chisel!! Sounds very good with the Bartolinis in even with my limited soldering ability. If you mod the bass loads, in my experience, you will not get your money back if you try to sell so be sure you're making the instrument in to something you want, otherwise leave as is and sell to it's max potential price to fund the bass you want.