FinnDave Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'm getting seriously pee'd off with charity gigs. In the last couple of hours I've had emails from a charity we agreed to play for in September asking us to be there for 4 hours and asking whether we needed electricity! Less than an hour later, sent the schedule for an even in Swindon telling us we have a half hour slot! Seems to me that anything labelled 'charity' is taking the piss and will be treated as such in the future. Last time we were promised 'publicity' for such a gig a couple of us went to a local radio station, gave an interview and a free CD only for them to drop the interview, play one with another band and use our CD as if it was the other lots! I reckon bands are worth what they are getting paid, so a free band is worth sweet FA to the organizers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't know it could still work for you. I'd make a point if agreeing a few things first of all, get it writing even. Have someone at the event handing out flyers and business cards for your band maybe ? I did a free gig with one of my jazz bands a couple of Christmases ago, it was really enjoyable and we picked up a few gigs from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Charities by their nature can be short of cash and/or qualified people who have any clue what's involved in putting a show on. I'll try to suss out whether they have anyone already onboard who knows what they're doing, or failing that if they have any organiser who even knows they need someone who knows what they're doing - or cares. If I have the spare time to assist or guide I will do - but if it looks like they have the attitude "It'll be alright" - or who's doing who the favour then I bail without a second glance. Many "charity events" I've seen in recent years have been ego trips by people trying to build a rep or career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julietgreen Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'm kind of with the OP on this one. Maybe it's different if you choose the charity yourself, but I've noticed that frequently when we do freebies, we're not treated very well. When they pay a couple of grand for the band, it makes them value it a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I have one more charity gig booked for September (guide dogs which I am happy to support) but it will be my last and I have made it very clear to the others in the band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephantgrey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) What gets me about most charity gigs is that they find money to pay the security, caterers, bar staff, sound guy, venue, etc. but when it comes to the band, its fine, they're artists, they'll do it for free… Edited July 29, 2014 by elephantgrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Bit of a generalisation? I've played at charity events where none of the organisers or staff (volunteers really) were paid. But there are no rules are there? If you were organising a charity event and could get bands at no cost then what's the problem? Would you not use volunteer bar staff because they get paid at other times? If a venue offered their premises for free would you not take up their offer? If a sound guy offered services for free, would you refuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) I think the problem is that it becomes easy for people to take the piss under the guise of charity. You get some bands that play loads of charity gigs for nothing, that's their choice...no problem. The problem starts when it then becomes difficult to get any form of money because you've already set your reputation as being willing and able to play for free.Why would a venue pay you when another place up the road is getting you for nothing a couple of weeks later? The other side of it is the fact that there are other people being paid.You may get some stuff for free but I guess bar staff won't be one of them? People are also, generally, paying over the bar and I pretty much guarantee that money won't be going to charity. I don't mind charity stuff if it's worthwhile, but I still expect to get my expenses covered. Edit...I was watching Undercover Boss the other day.It was nice to see the boss of Oxfam didn't get paid lots because it was for charity. Oh, wait............. Edited July 29, 2014 by Doddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I am ot altogether sure that bands at charity events offer that much additionlity, really. If it's not a 'gig' per se, then just play some cds over a pa. Family events for charity are like weddings, the audience is too varied for any one band to appeal and you end up playing to an audience of uninterested passers by. All pertty pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 With the Ceilidh band (I play Melodeon & Anglo conc in that) we've found that (in many cases) the organisers think "The bands free, so we're bound to make a profit, so we don't have to push the tickets". Consequently you get the call a week before "Oh, we haven't sold enough tickets, we're going to cancel it", or you end up playing for a very small number of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 All valid points and experiences, which just goes to show the wide variety of circumstances involved. In other words, room for all and no pressure on anyone to do anything they don't want to. Seems pretty ideal really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1406575010' post='2512652'] I reckon bands are worth what they are getting paid, so a free band is worth sweet FA to the organizers. [/quote] This. We will only do them for expenses nowadays unless one of us has personal reasons for wanting to do it. As has been said, the bar will usually still be making a profit, and who ever bothers to check to see what the organisers are claiming for expenses ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Again, an overall generalisation and depends very much on the type of event. Someone organising 'Live Aid' is going to incur expenses that need paying for (though how many of those bands got paid for their sets? ) whereas someone organising a village fete with a few bands playing throughout the afternoon will likely have no expenses to pay. I know someone who runs a local charity and organises many innovative fund raising events and is very creative about reducing expenses, one of which involves a rent-free lease on a large building with grounds which is used as a base for fund raising events with no need for venue hire at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I've had both very good and bad experiences with these types of shows. I think it is worth checking out who is organising it to see what they offer in way of experience. Questions like "do you need electricity" are certainly concerning but equally some charities have offered a token gesture of food and drink which has been great whilst not cutting into profits. It costs pennies to cook up a curry or order a pizza along with a small rider backstage and it makes the world of difference. I don't personally want to incur too many expenses if I know the band are the only ones seemingly losing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) here's the gig (two saturdays ago) Childrens Hospice for palliative care for Children with terminal and life threatening conditions Staff and families organise an annual summer mini festival and local bands give their time free as does the marquee, lighting, and sound supply all systems and provide three guys for the day Photographer/videographer provides services for the day for free too Bands just roll up all throughout the day and play their hour set (we were first on, Jamie Johnson was the final act plus several other all through the afternoon) The audience is unlike any you will most likely encounter at any gig , about ten kids live in at the hospice with ages ranging from about 4 to older teenagers all with parents, nursing staff with them in all manner of hi-tech wheelchairs and even beds in the marquee as some are totally confined to their beds. The staff even make up wristbands and laminate passes and other paraphenalia for them to just like a big festival. Absolutely everything is supplied and provided and manned and operated totally free. Charity gigs are not all about some young inexperienced wannabee promoter chancing their arm at hosting an event at which the only visible indicator of any charitable association is probably a banner hanging across the stage. Sometimes you are actually right there 'face to face' with 'the charity' It does tend to make quite a bit of difference! edit - and the sounds guys were so good our drummer left his full kit and I left my rig on stage for the duration for the other bands to use - they all did and all looked after it edit edit - and in response to the final para of the OP post, if you had been there you would have seen that it is simply not possible to put a price on this sort of thing Edited July 30, 2014 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Lots of people do take the piss with charity gigs, others are serious and well organised. We normally charge expenses for the former, but not for the latter. Needs to be worthwhile though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles'tone Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1406629689' post='2513127'] I think the problem is that it becomes easy for people to take the piss under the guise of charity. You get some bands that play loads of charity gigs for nothing, that's their choice...no problem. The problem starts when it then becomes difficult to get any form of money because you've already set your reputation as being willing and able to play for free.Why would a venue pay you when another place up the road is getting you for nothing a couple of weeks later? The other side of it is the fact that there are other people being paid.You may get some stuff for free but I guess bar staff won't be one of them? People are also, generally, paying over the bar and I pretty much guarantee that money won't be going to charity. [/quote] Yep, been in that band and we did dig a hole for ourselves in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've always found that you tend to get more people volunteering to work at these events rather than come along as a guest. I've played a couple of local charity events and there's always tonnes of 'sound guys', 'caterers' and 'bar staff' but no punters! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I agree that there is a world of difference between performing at an event organized by a charity (as the wonderful post by Steve-bbb, above, illustrates so well) and the generic 'organize an event then claim it is for charity' type which in general is simply a rip off. In future we will be careful to only accept freebies for genuine charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 we have done a fair few charity gigs this year as well as the one i mention above - but they are usually where we have been requested to play directly and are the only band on the lineup - some have been for expenses for example one gig we asked for 120 (6x20 each for travel expenses) and some like curry and band fundraiser evening we get fed too which is nice - one of our gigs led the booker (who is an events organiser) to book us for a large corporate function - all in all we have been very fortunate with charity gigs so far but as others have mentioned it is very easy to get on people's 'call up this band they did it for free last year' list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1406711356' post='2513898'] I've always found that you tend to get more people volunteering to work at these events rather than come along as a guest. I've played a couple of local charity events and there's always tonnes of 'sound guys', 'caterers' and 'bar staff' but no punters! Truckstop [/quote] I've played a fair few charity events where there've been far more "volunteers" than punters, but as long as the money is raised and it's fairly well run it's all good in my books. When I was in an originals band I'd treat it more as a networking exercise than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't do them very often but I've never asked for money for those I did and wouldn't feel comfortable doing so any more than I would go dump a load of clothes at a charity shop and expect money in return. If I was continually being badgered to do them I mgiht change my mind but more likely I'd just turn them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Not sure about being asked but we look at how this two way street may work. We did one for free last year and paid ourselves out of the kitty... The organisation was ok... and the crowd was big, but we donated 45 mins and they wanted us to cut that short, so it is as well they don't ask us again. For a good charity etc etc ...we will pay ourselves from a fund, but we have to be convinced the event will work... For a good cause, I'd rather support it or send in a donation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Way I see it, I travel -say- 50 miles round trip, spend half a the day at the weekend hanging round watching bands I wouldnt usually go to see, play free for - again, say - 45 minutes. Hump my gear around, and usually get asked to let someone I dont know use it, cos 'He has to rush off/couldnt bring his own etc' (Usuallymeans what he's got is not as good as the rubbish Stag back line thats usually supplied) Pay for my own beer and a burger. Lets call that £40 out of my pocket in expenses. Now is it a charity I would donate £40 to... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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