professionalism and learning new chops

[BassInMyFace]

does anyone have any pearls of wisedom in terms of maintaing a healthy balance between learnig new skills/techniques/chops etc whilst maintaining a professional career in bass playing?

i hate treading water and am always looking for new challenges but when you're a relative beginner in a technique outside your normal "field" eg bowing when you're a pizz player (or vice versa) or even slap bass versus fingerstyle etc, how do you guys "bring this to the table" so to speak with your band mates or jam partners?

practise is an obvious answer but who has the time to fully "master" a new technique before they actually want to start using it?

does anyone share this frustration and have you found a way to blag your way through a new style before you're properly ready??!!

[Bilbo]

There is an interesting point here that is seldom talked about. The general view is that we all need to be fully rounded players who have mastered all aspects of bass playing, be that electric or double bass. There are a few who seem able to do anything (John Patitucci comes to mind but there are many others) but, depending on your preferences, areas of interest and personal motivations, it is easy to see why people no longer seem generally able to 'keep up'. I am thinking about those players who cannot slap, who cannot improvise, who cannot use a bow, who cannot really play in thumb position, cannot do the two-handed tapping thing, cannot play with a pick, cannot play without a pick etc. The reasons for this may be many and varied; a late start on your instrument, a lack of opportunities to explore certain genres, very narrow set of preferences for a certain genre etc. I think this is a particular issue for non-pros as they have less time for music and maybe need to focus their efforts and to prioritise.

As a non-pro myself, I learned a long time ago that it is perfectly sensible to 'leave things' out of your basket of skills, particularly if you are not likely to use them. I can slap on electric but quite poorly as I have never really got into the music where it is appropriate and, as a dedicated fretless player, it doesn't sound that good anyway. I cannot slap a la rockabilly etc. I don't do two-handed stuff although I did spend some time on it around the time Stu Hamm and Billy Sheehan appeared on the scene and have a couple of 'party pieces'. I don't really play reggae, bar a few Bob Marley covers here and there, don't play with a pick (although I can because I play guitar), don't play punk or ska etc and my bowing is shocking. Like many of us, I have not got time for all of it and have to target my efforts on those aspects of playing that are pertinent to my gigs/composing/studio work. Everything else is just not a priority.

[Dad3353]

[size=4] [/size] [size=4] [/size]

Reading through that list, I learn that I'm just as good (or bad..? [size=4] [/size][size=4] ) as Bilbo..! [/size], but with drums on top..! [i]I[/i] can't 'slap' either, nor play with a pick, on bass nor guitar, nor is my bowing any good (well, I've never done any, so I suppose it's not yet perfect...). Who'd have thought it, eh..?

I doubt if there are many virtuosos in any field, bass or otherwise, with perfect mastery of all styles, periods and techniques. There aren't enough years in a lifetime for more than a couple, imo. It's normal to not excel all over, and a waste of potential to try. Extending one's range is fine, but "Jack of all trades, master of none" is not an idle expression. [size=4] [/size]

[Bilbo]

I did a gig recently where I had to reproduce some Laurence Cottle lines and I nailed 90% of it but the 10% has revealed some shortcomings in my playing (as well as my reading). The question is, do I now spend months trying to get the chops I need to nail that three bars I blew on the gig? Frankly, I doubt it. I woudl love to nail it and all that but the investment required may be too much, given the other things I could do with that time. It's always a tough call.

[stingrayPete1977]

This topic came up with Jake during my lesson, it's a tricky one and we have some members in the electric section who have decided that playing a P bass over the pickup with a pick is it for them but for me that only works in original music, if you want to play various genres some degree of at least a few techniques is vital IMO. This becomes harder on double bass because I could improve my pick playing loads within a few Weeks should I join a punk band for instance, getting to orchestral standard with the misery stick is very very unlikely to ever be in my skill set!
Tricky one really.

[bassace]

For fifty years I've blagged my way through the noble art of bass playing; never had a lesson, my left hand technique is like a train wreck, I'm sure my intonation is suspect and I don't bow or slap, just play straight ahead pizz. I say none of this with satisfaction or pride. But I've had the pleasure of playing with many great musicians, some of them right at the top of the business, and my phone still rings. In a year I'll have played with some 15 different bands.

Where is all this going, you might ask. I suppose it means that if you stick to your preferred style, develop it, learn to read and keep your ears open, not only to what you're playing but also to those round you and on CD you won't go far wrong.

[fatback]

Good thread.

Bowing is a good example. A huge investment of time for something most of us will never use. But always there's the guilt if we give it a miss. Or there is with me anyway.

I guess it's all down to how much practice time you've got and how much of that has to be taken with learning tunes etc. Not to mention the tricky question of how talented we might or might not be. I'm sure it takes me many times longer in practice hours to master a thing than it would many other people. Economising isn't optional.

This is probably why not gigging can be so damaging. You spend all your playing time doing stuff you can't do, instead of enjoying what you can do.

[BassInMyFace]

good discussion, thanks guys. in reply to fatbacks point, i think i see it in the opposite way. i feel gigging can be damaging as its very easy to switch off and play on autopilot. i find myself wondeirng if what i do is even playing music sometimes rather than just an extended excercise in musle memory! i suppose this comes with gigging very regulalry with one band but even with previous outfits i find myself just going through the ropes one more time.......

i love having a bit of time to spend doing soemthing new that is scary and difficult but when push comes to shove, the next gig is paying the bills and noone wants to see a beginner struggling their way through a new style or technique. i suppose this is my point, you need to find the balance when your proficient enough to do a a short simple bow passage or a funky slap here and there etc etc.

im surprised by some earlier comments though. i do appreciate the potential of "jack of all trades" syndrome but if we all slump into a rut of being comfortable wheres the fun/innovation/challenge?? im pretty sure, as bass players, we have a reputation to keep up in terms of being the most "open-eared" member of the band. we need to listen to everyone in order to play our parts the best. i think that means we should be open to new challenges and constantly pushing ourselves forwards. how easy is it to be a roots and fifths bass player for example??! when it comes to writing new stuff and you have a few new tricks in your arsenal then you can make a big difference rather than being the guy at the back plonking away.

quite apart from anything else, any learning can never be a bad thing. new techniques or new musical styles etc broaden your horizons and will 100% improve your day to day stock in trade playing i reckon. a bit of flamenco might influence what scale you use in a certain part of a song, a bit of slap may expand your rythmic palate, a bowed section could smash a bit of emotion into a slow section. a bit of tapping will..........make everyone unplug your amp most likley. seriously, who thinks tapping sounds good??!

im just saying i think its a good idea to sacrifice a bit of ego and do soemthing you're rubbish at for a while and see where it takes you!

[fatback]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' timestamp='1407238986' post='2518601']

im just saying i think its a good idea to sacrifice a bit of ego and do soemthing you're rubbish at for a while and see where it takes you!
[/quote]

For me that's playing the double bass.

I suspect it's the thing in life I'm worst at. Except for wrapping presents.

[stingrayPete1977]

I agree with all of that bass in my face, I don't need to do any of the things I'm currently learning and I have no intention of being a pro, I haven't got the ability anyway, i could maybe hold my own in a reasonable function band on electric bass (I have before) but I couldn't go for any upright jobs beyond jam night level. I can't think of any pro players I have met that have made a proper living purely from a single genre of music never mind a single technique? I suspect the Jack of all trades players get more calls than the guy with the killer floating thumb!

[Dazed]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407231886' post='2518493']
getting to orchestral standard with the misery stick is very very unlikely to ever be in my skill set!
Tricky one really.
[/quote]

Thanks. I was reading this in the pub and spat me Carling when I read that. Actually Laughed Out Loud. Misery stick.

[stingrayPete1977]

It is my favourite name for it, lol. If you heard me use it you would agree too

[Doddy]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' timestamp='1407197048' post='2518346']
i hate treading water and am always looking for new challenges but when you're a relative beginner in a technique outside your normal "field" eg bowing when you're a pizz player (or vice versa) or even slap bass versus fingerstyle etc, how do you guys "bring this to the table" so to speak with your band mates or jam partners?

practise is an obvious answer but who has the time to fully "master" a new technique before they actually want to start using it?

[/quote]
Just picking up on this bit, for me the whole idea of practice is to be able to do something that I can't, it makes no difference if I'm going to use it on a gig or not, at least not in the near future.
I might spend time with the bow, yet I don't have any gigs booked where I can use it but there will be times when I'll need to be able to do it. Other things I'll learn purely for my own satisfaction-I'll never need to play like Wooten but yet I'll still learn it and in doing so
there will be things that creep in to my playing, but I'm not going to force it in to a song.
This is basically my theory on practice...I want to improve and eventually it will become part of my playing but I'm not going to force it.
With regards to the 'Jack of all Trades' comment, I'm a big believer in versatility. I wouldn't get half as much work if I was only to play one style.I've been booked for gigs on Upright where they didn't know I played electric and vice versa,and i've also been booked because I can double.I think that term is often used very negatively, almost to suggest that versitility means you're not actually good at anything but there are so many players about who can kill it on a rock gig one day, swing their arse off on a jazz gig the next night and then play a show the next.For me, versatility is something to strive for and that brings it back to my point about practice. You might not need to use what you are practicing in the short term but when the call comes where you will need it, you'll be ready.

[fingerz]

Learning something new is never going to make you worse.