Home Use Combo for Low-B 5-String

[Nomad]

I'd appreciate some suggestions for a bass combo for home use, to suit a 5-string fretless with the big thick string tuned to low B. Budget around 200 quid. I'm a bass noob to all intents and purposes (as a player and user of bass gear, that is - know what I like to hear in recorded music).

Use would be practice and noodling, and jamming along with recorded music. I do home recording, but have no particular plans to use the amp for that unless it adds something to the sound/playing that DI doesn't give. I'm not averse to DI from the amp, if only to use it as a monitor so that I can record without headphones.

I normally play 6-string guitar and have a dyed in the wool preference for valve amps for that instrument. That said, I suspect solid state for bass is likely to be a more practical option, and I don't feel that I need any particular voicing of the sort that comes from a guitar amp when the output valves are being pushed. Clean and undistorted seems like a sensible way to go.

At home, in my moderately sized living room, I use a Laney Cub 10 (supposedly 10W, but probably closer to 14W) which has a 10" speaker. For afternoons and early evenings, I can happily crank this all the way up without having the neighbours hassling me. I would say that the cranked Laney fills the room with enough volume without going too loud. I can bung on a CD or trawl YouTube for backing tracks, turn up the (rather decent) hi-fi and jam away in a room full of musical sound. Certainly not as loud as having a band practice in the living room (did that when I was young and keen, got hassled) but loud enough for fun. I'd like the bass amp to be able to reach similar volume levels without crapping out or sounding strained.

The amp must sound good. For me, that means deep and smooth at the low end without getting farty or being dominated by a resonant frequency. I tried the bass (Yamaha TRB5IIF) through the Laney, and was surprised at the sound. The amp's voicing is fairly neutral for a guitar amp. With the bass, tone is okay for the most part and volume isn't too bad, but it struggles with the low end, where it sounds more like a ring than a rumble (probably going way below the speaker's resonant frequency and reproducing harmonics more than the fundamental - DI'd into the mixer using Beyer reference headphones, there is much more ear-flap). With the Laney, if I turn up the bass EQ on the instrument, it gets muddy and messy and feels like the speaker might be in trouble if I whack the thicker strings. It will do for practice and noodling for now, but it's going to feel limited sooner or later.

I'd like something that isn't too big - guitar 1x12 combo size is about the max.

If a 1x10 10-14W valve guitar combo is fine maxed out with guitar, what sort of power do I need to look at for a solid state bass combo?

I've been looking at a few reviews/demos on YouTube. One amp that stood out in terms of sound was the Fender Bronco 40, which also seems to be quite well regarded in written reviews on music web sites and various forums. The thought of a modelling amp is anathema to me as a guitarist, but opinion on this one seems to be that it does the modelling thing quite well. I'm not especially after a range of vintage amp sounds, but I'm wondering if this sort of thing would give me a better chance of finding a sound or two that I like, which is somewhat different from buying a conventional amp which will tend more to have its own particular sound.

A couple of things I'm not sure of with the Bronco are whether it would be loud enough, and whether it will be fine with the low B. Although it sounded good on YouTube, I have no idea what volume it was putting out (it could have been DI'd in some cases), and I have a feeling the demos were done with 4-string basses. Part of me is wondering if the Bronco is all features and great tone at low volume, but still sounds boxy and "what it is" when turned up. Works for guitar amps if you can find the right "what it is" (the Cub 10 is a great little tone machine when pushed), but maybe bass needs something more neutral with leanings towards better fidelity?

Is the Bronco worth looking at? What else should I consider?

[fretmeister]

Used Roland Bass Cube 30.

I love mine. I even gig it with an orchestra.

[HowieBass]

Fender Rumble 40 (V3) might suit. Genz Benz know how inside and owners on here all seem very satisfied with performance. £182 new.

[Nomad]

Curve ball question: What about the TC Electronic BG250 208? Seems to be available for 235 quid in a few places. I could stretch to that if it offers more in terms of tone. Thinking of the low end especially - don't think I need the power, but it would mean there's loads of headroom.

Might or might not use the toneprint feature, but I use the Nova Drive for guitar and already have the 3-way footswitch. Their gear seems to be really well made (got the Hall Of Fame reverb as well).

[HowieBass]

Well the question here is 'if' in terms of tone. Fender's 10" driver vs the TC's two 8" drivers. You don't need the extra watts for home practice but it's always nice having more power on tap. You'd really need to go and listen to them, side by side if possible, before parting with any cash.

[Nomad]

I wondered about the TC because I've read good things about them, but perhaps that was for a different model in the range). Since found a pretty good YouTube review by, I think, a German guy speaking English. He covered the range in reasonable depth and reckoned the 208 was a bit lightweight at the low end compared to the others (and they're more expensive).

If I look at the 200-250 price range, there are some 1x15 combos, such as the Laney RB4, an Ashdown, and probably others I don't recall at present. Although I have no particular expectations from driver size (in principle, any driver with a suitable f0 and good cabinet design should be able to go deep and low), maybe the bigger cone area is worth looking at.

1x15 for the deep sound?

Hope to get to a local music shop at the weekend to try a couple of amps with my bass, although I'm not sure if the 1x15s are in stock - should get a play with the Fender Rumble 40 at least, and maybe one or two others. I think some real world sonic references will help.

[HowieBass]

Yeah I also saw the TC combo video from BassTheWorld back when he first uploaded it and you can definitely hear a difference in tone across the various diameter drivers. A well designed modern combo should be able to deliver a good sound for a low B and there's no reason to reject drivers smaller than a 15"; again it might have to be a case of playing through a few units to get an idea of what works for you. I used to have an old sealed, unported 2 x 12" cab with a separate bass amp head, both of late 70s design and I've replaced them with a modern 2 x 10" plus tweeter ported combo and that delivers significantly louder lows.

[Truckstop]

You won't need as much power as you think to fill a small room with bass. I use an SWR Workingman's 10 (80w!) and it's perfect. Can handle a B fine and it's only a single 10" speaker. If possible, get one of those. They can be had for about £125 second hand.

The Hartke kickback combos are also awesome. The 30w, 1x10" one would be great. I once saw a guy use one for a pub gig and there was enough power there to keep up with a band. Hartke make more powerful versions with larger speakers, any will be perfect for your needs.

I'd avoid 1x15 combos purely because they're too large for what you need them for. Larger speakers don't necessarily 'handle bass' better, remember! It's all to do with efficiency.

Anyway, good luck, hope you find something useful soon!

Truckstop

[warwickhunt]

I'm sure you'll have sussed from the other posters but at the volumes you are discussing, reproducing a low B is no big deal for a reasonable quality combo and tbh the speaker size is of relatively little import though you may find that of the 'budget' manufacturers that yes maybe slightly larger is better than a dinky 8" BUT it isn't a given that 15" (shyte) speaker will be better than 10" (average) speaker.

£200 'used' will get you something with a bit of headroom which you may find yourself in need of sooner than you think and they all come with the special feature of a VOLUME control which goes down as well as up... not that guitarists realise this!

[Nomad]

Maybe it would be better for me to take a slightly different approach in the hope of stopping my brain from exploding due to too many choices and a large lack of familiarity with all things bass...

The first amp I thought of, the Broco 40, has "loads of amps 'n' stuff in it", may well be fine for home use (indeed, pretty much its intended purpose). There's an argument that it might be a jack of all trades and master of none, or there might be a sound or two in its palette that works for me. Is there any particular reason to [i]not[/i] buy a Bronco 40?

Planning to try some amps at a local shop this weekend in any case (but no Bronco 40 in stock), but I'm starting to wonder if nearly all amps for this sort of use are competent enough as makes no difference to my relatively inexperienced ears. In other words, I might as well buy what appeals to me than engage in some lengthy period of trying to track down something superlative.

Should I be pragmatic, believe the marketing and reviews, and just buy the all-singing all-dancing toy box?

Edited August 8, 2014 by Nomad

[Kiwi]

My EBS Combo 60 has proven to be well worth its purchase price. Tilt back feature is very handy too.

[Nomad]

Went to the local shop today and got an amp. I tried the TC BG250-208, Fender Rumble 40, and Laney RB3, those being what they had in stock for around my budget (200 quid, maybe a bit more if something stands out). I used my own bass and played in the shop's isolation booth so I could play at my expected volume.

The most striking thing overall was that the TC wasn't nearly as loud as I expected, given it has a 250W amp compared to 40 and 65 for the other two. Its speaker system must be pretty inefficient. In fact, the TC left me rather unimpressed. It was quite smooth sounding at the low end, but the lower mid seemed a bit indistinct, and it became rather woolly and uncontrolled sounding when turned up when set for plenty of low end (up to about half volume at most). The Fender and Laney both did much better in this regard. They were both louder than the TC as well, with volume at about 1/3rd. Between the Fender and Laney, I felt the Fender maybe had a slightly more refined tone, but the difference was marginal. The Laney came across as being more punchy or solid sounding when playing with heavy attack.

With the TC eliminated, I looked at the features of the other two and decided that an overdrive isn't something I need for bass, while a compressor and FX loop is much more handy. Consequently, the Laney RB3 came home with me.

[HowieBass]

I could be wrong but I think the TC BG250-208 only reaches maximum output of 250 watts with an extension cabinet so you'd be getting roughly 125 watts out of it and that's not enough of a difference to outclass the others as you obviously heard. Glad to hear that you've got something you like!

[yorks5stringer]

Google "TC Amps power" or something similar, there has been plenty of debate!

[Nomad]

Yes.... the TC tech specs aren't terribly clear.

I think the Fender and Laney both came across as 'proper' bass amps, while I'm left wondering what the TC is supposed to be for. I read somewhere that it's quite good for reinforcing the sound of an upright bass, and maybe it suits that. The other two seemed to be more a cheap and cheerful way of chucking out decent bass for jamming at home and maybe quieter rehearsals. A pair of no-nonsense, honest amps that offer more than a bedroom combo can.

[tauzero]

I had a Hartke Kickback combo a little while back - the 12" speaker version. I bought it with a knackered speaker and put in a replacement reasonably good quality driver, and it turned out well. I think I used it on a couple of club gigs (with a low B 5-string) and it coped well.