Which Female bassist has the best technical skills?

[stingrayPete1977]

This is where we disagree again dingus, many bass players have been terrible technically and in note choice etc but many people have gained enjoyment from listening to them, those go in the favourites thread IMO uxia in my clip has a clear understanding of music and the ability to portray it musically with superb accuracy and feel, doesn't mean everyone would enjoy listening to her, technical ability 100% though.

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407511466' post='2521371']
This is where we disagree again dingus, many bass players have been terrible technically and in note choice etc but many people have gained enjoyment from listening to them, those go in the favourites thread IMO uxia in my clip has a clear understanding of music and the ability to portray it musically with superb accuracy and feel, doesn't mean everyone would enjoy listening to her, technical ability 100% though.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that we do disagree on the fundamental points , Pete, but where we are maybe talking at cross purposes is in so much as I don't think that because some people apparently find a particular bass players efforts enjoyable that, objectively, that in itself makes them a good player. The enjoyment stems from the psychology of the listener, not the skills of the player. We live in a culture which places all kind of confusing distractions between the listener and the music. All too often, our perception of music we hear is influenced by all kinds of extraneous external factors that are in fact completely superfluous to the music as a purely sonic event. We are preoccupied with image , attitude( whatever that is) and hyperbole, not least of all because most folks would find just listening to music pretty boring.

Like I have said many times, people are free to enjoy whatever bass player they like for whatever reason, but that enjoyment in itself doesn't make the bassist concerned a good player. Only playing the bass well will do that. Some things are not just a matter of opinion. Everything is not relative. But most things are comparative, and by making comparisons we are then able to assess relative merit.

And just let me make absolutely clear, I think Marta is a very capable player and I wish her every success in the music career that she is surely destined for.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Dingus

[bubinga5]

can't real fathom why Marta is even mentioned in this thread, of the Female with the best technical skills.??

although i dig her playing, she's only really playing what she has heard… literally.

Edited August 9, 2014 by bubinga5

[drTStingray]

Tal Walkenfield - such groove and soloing skills - fabulous.

I will also confess to owning a very large wall poster of Suzi Quattro playing a Fender bass (although it's hidden away in a box somewhere) - had it since about 1973 ish!!

[Sibob]

For me, its all about Esperanza Spalding & Me'Shell Ndegeocello, but I guess they could be are complete artists and not just side women.

Si

[White Cloud]

I just don't see the point of this. A bass player is a person who plays the bass. This thread makes about as much sense as a "which male bassist has the best technical ability?" or "which bass is the bestest bass ever?". What next....who is the greatest ever gay bassist?...who is the most talented bassist of Jewish origin?

Sooner or later it will descend into "my dad is bigger than yours!"

Pointless.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1407573463' post='2521847']...Sooner or later it will descend into "my dad is bigger than yours!"...[/quote]

[Robert Robinson] Ah, but is he, sir..? There's the rub..! ([i]taps side of nose knowingly[/i]...)[/Robert Robinson]

[timmo]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1407575370' post='2521863']
[Robert Robinson] Ah, but is he, sir..? There's the rub..! ([i]taps side of nose knowingly[/i]...)[/Robert Robinson]
[/quote]I would have liked to follow that up with a Frank Muir quote, but sadly i don`t know any.

[molan]

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1407482083' post='2520886']
Didn't she tour with Jamiroqai or whatever after these vids?
[/quote]

No she most definitely didn't!

Was invited to play at one soundcheck (basically a publicity stunt) and that was it. I know someone who was at the soundcheck (such as it was), it wasn't a pretty sight apparently.

There's a lot of 'misinformation' out there about how this happened and her playing ability. It certainly hadn't hurt her public profile though. . .

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1407573463' post='2521847']
I just don't see the point of this. A bass player is a person who plays the bass. This thread makes about as much sense as a "which male bassist has the best technical ability?" or "which bass is the bestest bass ever?". What next....who is the greatest ever gay bassist?...who is the most talented bassist of Jewish origin?

Sooner or later it will descend into "my dad is bigger than yours!"

Pointless.
[/quote]
The thread was started partly in jest because dingus could not grasp the concept of peoples favourite female bass players possibly also being a bit rubbish at the same time. Surely the answer to your question is Geddy Lee anyway?

[Doddy]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407586699' post='2522046']

The thread was started partly in jest because dingus could not grasp the concept of peoples favourite female bass players possibly also being a bit rubbish at the same time. Surely the answer to your question is Geddy Lee anyway?
[/quote]
Only if the question is 'Who is the best bass player in Rush?'.

I think the thing is, most people are going to say that their favourite player (male or female) is a member of their favourite band regardless of ability. You might say that Kim Deal is your favourite female player because you're a fan of the Pixies, and that's cool.No problems. However, I don't think anyone could, or would, argue that players like Esperanza and Tal and Carol are more accomplished musicians despite what you think of their music.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407586699' post='2522046']
Surely the answer to your question is Geddy Lee anyway?
[/quote]
I would have to disagree with that.....

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407586699' post='2522046']
The thread was started partly in jest because dingus could not grasp the concept of peoples favourite female bass players possibly also being a bit rubbish at the same time. Surely the answer to your question is Geddy Lee anyway?
[/quote]

Pete, I am fully aware that this thread was aimed at me, and I understand perfectly that people are perfectly at liberty to enjoy bass players of either gender who are not particularly accomplished players, but the point I wanted to make in the other thread was that, when it comes to judging women bass players, it is obvious that, in most cases, completely different standards and overall criteria apply.

If Suzi Quatro is someones favourite bass player then that is fine - I have fond recollections of her myself- but don't try and tell me it is because of anything she has ever played on the bass guitar. Similarly with Kim Deal, her appeal seems to be that she can hardly play the bass guitar at all and revels in that lack of ability and yet has had a public profile and a wonderful music career on the back of that. That makes her an appealing role model for other people who can hardly play but want to think they are potentially able to make a meaningful creative contribution to something musical.

There are plenty of awesome women bass players who are as good as the best male players - MeShell , Carole Kaye , Esperanza [i]et al- [/i]but if Marta was a fat spotty ginger lad from Scotland do you think he would have a similar amount of attention and apparent acclaim ? Never underestimate the power of novelty. Like I have said before, Marta is a fine player with a great future ahead of her and I wish her well , but she is not a sensation or anything truly exceptional. She is very competent, but here is nothing remotely original or unique about her bass playing .

Even the more technically advanced players are judged differently. Naming names, there is nothing particularly special or appealing about Tal Wickenfield's playing to my ear. If she was a bloke, she probably would still be a complete unknown. There are plenty of other relatively high-profile female bass players who are fairly accomplished but overall pretty unremarkable players, but I am reticent to name names, even if they are professionals .

Edited August 9, 2014 by Dingus

[stingrayPete1977]

TBF Doddy I was struggling to think of any other Jewish bassists

[stingrayPete1977]

Esta from Haim then, ha.

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407597147' post='2522185']
TBF Doddy I was struggling to think of any other Jewish bassists
[/quote]

There are loads of Jewish bass players!

[Doddy]

Jeff Berlin....although to be fair, I'd put him at the top of pretty much any bass player list (not female though).

Edited August 9, 2014 by Doddy

[Dingus]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1407587684' post='2522061']
Only if the question is 'Who is the best bass player in Rush?'.

[/quote]

Are you trying to suggest that there are Jewish bass players that are better than Geddy Lee?!!!

Does not compute! Does not compute!

[Doddy]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1407597741' post='2522197']


Are you trying to suggest that there are Jewish bass players that are better than Geddy Lee?!!!

Does not compute! Does not compute!
[/quote]
I was actually suggesting that there are (many) bass players in general better than Geddy.

[timmo]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1407597623' post='2522195']
Jeff Berlin....although to be fair, I'd put him at the top of pretty much any bass player list (not female though).
[/quote]I saw him at the LBGS. You can see how good he is, but he bored me rigid. I left before he finished.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1407593923' post='2522145']
Pete, I am fully aware...
...
[/quote]

A fair dose of condescension in here, I feel. You are doubtless at least partially right in assuming (and you can do no more than that, I would say...) that the physical characteristics of female players is a factor in their popularity, but it's disingenuous to advance that it's always the case for everyone. I would equally suggest that, gender aside, in the 'music' industry, some form of showmanship could be counted as 'quality'. I can think, off hand, of a few 'popular' acts where, imo, the gender counts for little. Arthur Brown, with his fiery headdress..? Musical skills..? Big boobs..? No; merely a gimmick. Bob Dylan became favourite with many folks, despite his (let's be charitable...) 'vocal handicap'. Mr. Hendrix, with the ritual 'behind the head' or pyrotechnic skills..? Were they the key to hos popularity, or his technique..? There hovers a faint mist of snobisme, it seems to me. Some ladies find favour with the Chippendales. Some blokes prefer ladies. What's the charge, officer..?

Edited August 9, 2014 by Dad3353

[Doddy]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1407598188' post='2522205']
I saw him at the LBGS. You can see how good he is, but he bored me rigid. I left before he finished.
[/quote]
Which brings us back to the original point.

[stingrayPete1977]

I think to some extent though we can put people into a technical camp that has no need to factor in if anyone likes them or not though, surely thats what grades do?
You can be grade 8 and be boring with little flair,
You can have no grades but could fly through them should you wish,
You can be terrible but interesting to watch as a performance even if the performance is to your dog only,
You can be great to listen to but boring to watch,
etc etc etc all with or without an audience really but the graded folk have proven some degree of ability haven't they?

I have confused myself now I think

Edited August 9, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[icastle]

Having a pile of techniques under your belt doesn't automatically make you 'good'.
'Good' is what happens when you choose the right one.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1407598346' post='2522207']
A fair dose of condescension in here, I feel. You are doubtless at least partially right in assuming (and you can do no more than that, I would say...) that the physical characteristics of female players is a factor in their popularity, but it's disingenuous to advance that it's always the case for everyone. I would equally suggest that, gender aside, in the 'music' industry, some form of showmanship could be counted as 'quality'. I can think, off hand, of a few 'popular' acts where, imo, the gender counts for little. Arthur Brown, with his fiery headdress..? Musical skills..? Big boobs..? No; merely a gimmick. Bob Dylan became favourite with many folks, despite his (let's be charitable...) 'vocal handicap'. Mr. Hendrix, with the ritual 'behind the head' or pyrotechnic skills..? Were they the key to hos popularity, or his technique..? There hovers a faint mist of snobisme, it seems to me. Some ladies find favour with the Chippendales. Some blokes prefer ladies. What's the charge, officer..?
[/quote]


I get accused of being condescending quite often, but I suppose it is just an inevitable consequence of being better than most people and then having no choice but to engage with them. It doesn't really bother me, Dad.

The point is that women want it both ways. They claim to want equality and to be taken seriously, whatever that might mean, whilst at the same time shamelessly exploiting the benefits of inequality and exploiting their sexuality for personal gain if that opportunity presents itself. Sex and show business are inextricably linked, not least of all because sex will always be the most enthralling and compelling form of entertainment for mankind, so incorporating sex into other forms of entertainment will make them more attractive by association. But the pertinent point regarding bass players is that male bass players are for the most part rated for their playing skills, women ones are more often that not assessed for more peripheral l reasons , mostly to do with sex in some way or another . That would seem to be a fairly sober and sensible contention to me, and not at all controversial. Who would disagree?