Teaching bass - how many lessons?

[Bilbo]

I have not taught for a long time (decades) and am not intending to start any time soon but I wanted to expore a few of the issues I have had previoulsy that put me off the idea.

When one thinks about children and piano lessons, there is always this image in my mihnd of kids going once a week for years, even decades if they really take it seriously. I found, when I taught, that my students ca,e in three camps; the 'one off' who I saw once and never saw again, the 'occasional' who wanted the odd lesson but never really committed, and the 'eager beavers' who kept coming and soaking up whatever I threw at them. The percentages were about 40/40/20.

I am, thereofre, curious to know what number of regular students people have. I am poretty confident that, if I started teaching bass in a town like Felixstowe, I would be lucky to find three in total and the idea of a teaching 'career' is pure fantasy. So, how many students have you got, how often do they come and how long do you hold them for?

[Doddy]

I think you've kind of got a point. With regards to the types of student, I've found that the ones who are regular tend to be either the serious hobbyists or the teenagers who love playing and want to improve.The occasional students are usually the more advanced players who are looking to improve certain aspects or concepts. The one timers are often the ones who want you to blow smoke up their arse but struggle when you present them with things (often basic) that they can't do.

About teaching full time, I'm not doing much at the minute but I'm building it up again, but there is always a problem of the market becoming over saturated. There are a lot of teachers about lately and the number of students is fewer. I know guys who have been constantly busy teaching for years and even they are struggling right now.Potential students don't have the disposable income right now to pay for quality lessons.

[jakenewmanbass]

I do tons of one offs, I think this is for two reasons, I seem to have a pretty good rep amongst you lot here so people find me and want a lesson even if they are a really long way away (so I do 2 hr lessons once a month for a few people) but then I also don't mind doing them as and when folk feel like they need a kick up the arse, and I can do that in spades.
The second reason is as Doddy says, there are a lot of guys that feel at the top of a particular tree when it comes to playing the songs they know for a band etc and come to people like me and Doddy to say 'what's the next step' well the next step is often far more work than they ever imagined because the difference between playing a dozen songs and being able to cover a depping gig e.g. reading in a function band , a session with parts (a proper studio session) a theatre dep or chair, a TV ad or radio Jingle, to compose a bass part on the spot for a singer songwriter session with or without parts, to sight read a cabaret pad for a visiting act or sit in a cruise ship band, or busk an entire jazz gig or even be expected to know a function set of standard pop stuff etc etc is COLOSSAL
What's slightly amusing is that some folk look at you like you are from mars and can't compute the work that goes into being able to cover all those remits.
On the other hand I've had loads of students that just want help improving and reaching their own goals, which is great fun.
And everything in-between... Most experiences of meeting bass chatters for lessons has been really good, and having taught at Universities and colleges in the past I have had some really serious talent sitting in front of me a few times too.
the main thing to remember as a teacher is that sometimes what you take for granted is gold to another so be patient and searching for what the student needs... if they feel like the learning is in their hands you're onto a winner...

I don't have any regular weekly people at the mo, but I have a few that I will contact if I'm in their area, in the past I've had people come for years, and obviously at colleges it's weekly, I don't have a teaching job at the moment but I dep for Ernie McKone at the London Centre of Contemporary Music...

Edited August 13, 2014 by jakenewmanbass

[stingrayPete1977]

I have had lessons from both Doddy and Jake, Paul got me reading a couple of years ago for no other reason than I wanted to learn but he was busy cruising the oceans when I took the plunge with upright bass, after lots of suggestions I managed to get in with Jake. As a student what I can say is that its the ability to teach rather than play that matters, I know some great players but they can't show anyone else how too, Paul and Jake are both great players and teachers

Hopefully I fall into Paul's description of the occasional student, my musician friends are genuinely shocked that I have lessons, I always point out that my teachers are usually either having lessons off someone else or at least studying something to try and improve their own playing.

Without the lessons from Paul I wouldn't be able to read the books I am using to learn double bass that Jake has been teaching me, thanks guys

The last two bands I have been in had teachers in, current one is a theory guy that does drum, bass and guitar lessons, bit of a jazzer too, the other band the guitarist was a full on metal fanatic that taught classical guitar and played at weddings etc, in our area the different teachers tend to have genres they are known for and no one treads on each others toes too much. They both go through busy and quiet patches but also have a constant flow of students from a few high schools, one also teaches a full class at a time all day on a saturday at the Peavey school which is going well.

Edited August 13, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[Bilbo]

In general terms, then, would it be fair to say that teaching, like gigging, is defined by the vaguaries of the 'freelance' world and sometimes you are busy and sometimes less so? As someone who has been in full-time employment for the last 27 years, that scares the s*** out of me but I guess it is no different to any area of self-employment.

[JamieMillsBass]

Good timing for me that you brought this up. A friend of mine is about to open a music school locally and has asked me to teach bass, so I'd be interested to hear everyone's experiences. I've never taught before, nor do I think I'm truely qualified to teach, but he's keen to have me involved so it will be learning experience for me. As part of his business plan he ran a serve on 100 kids and 100 parents each in various areas of our (relatively small) town. Bass came out bottom of the %'s of instrument anyone wanted to learn (interestingly it was mostly girls who wanted to learn bass).

I think this is probably because up against the battle that it's not an immediate 'wow' instrument. A young kid picks up a guitar and plays the intro to 'Sweet child of mine' and his parents beam with pride and tell everyone he's gonna be the best guitarist ever. He picks up the bass, and plays the bass line, un-accompanied by the music, and 99% don't even recognise where it is from. It's not until you get to the advanced levels of playing bass that you can play something un-accompanied to someone and they are genuinely impressed.

So for this reason, I think the number of bass students is inherently lower. This can be a good thing though, because you can be fairly sure that anyone who really wants to play bass isn't in it for the 'wow' factor. Therefore they might a) stick at it longer and not get frustrated when they can't play Victor Wooten after their 3rd lesson. I'd much rather teach three dedicated and enthusiastic students than 33 that have no real interest.

[Bilbo]

I am not so aure (although I am not discagreeing per se). When I taught (late 1980s/early 90s), it seemed that everyone could play Teen Town or some BIlle Sheehan/Stu Hamm/Flea stuff and so thought they had it all nailed. When you introduced them to the concept of 'music' that wasn't based on acrobatics, they got the 'ump (I didn't actually use those words). I think tere was an element of the 'wow' factor around then, certainly. It may have waiend now but I still hear young kids talking Wooten and the other whizz bang circus freaks.

[JamieMillsBass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1408013899' post='2526233']
I am not so aure (although I am not discagreeing per se). When I taught (late 1980s/early 90s), it seemed that everyone could play Teen Town or some BIlle Sheehan/Stu Hamm/Flea stuff and so thought they had it all nailed. When you introduced them to the concept of 'music' that wasn't based on acrobatics, they got the 'ump (I didn't actually use those words). I think tere was an element of the 'wow' factor around then, certainly. It may have waiend now but I still hear young kids talking Wooten and the other whizz bang circus freaks.
[/quote]

Actually, thinking about it, I was absolutely 100% one of those annoying kids you are talking about (In the early 00's rather than 90's) so maybe I'm wrong!

[seashell]

I am definitely my teacher's eagerest beaver

I've been going to him for three years now. I think most of his younger students either give up, join a band and give up lessons, or go off to Uni. Most of his middle aged fantasists give up as well when they discover that buying a £4k bass does not suddenly turn them into JPJ.

I intend to keep go ing for ever and ever. There's always something new to learn. He's never gonna shake me off...mwaaa haaa haa

[Doddy]

I think there is still an element of the Bass being viewed as an easier option to the guitar amongst many, which gives
them the feeling that they don't need to have lessons.
Bilbo mentioned that some people get the hump when talk turns to 'music' and I totally get that..but as Jake said, there is a huge difference from to playing in your band and taking it to the next level and it's learning music that will help take you there.It kind of sorts out who are the more serious players because it doesn't have the instant gratification of learning a cool lick or song (with tab), but it's far more important and the benefits are huge.
With regards to playing a bassline and most people not recognising it, I'd say you need to show recognisable lines then. 'Stand By Me' keeps parents happy and and teaches a common I,vi, IV, V progression, for example.

[XB26354]

I haven't taught for ages - hell, I haven't even owned a bass for 2 years, but I taught for about 15 years prior to that. My experiences were pretty much the same as Doddy and Jake. Of course there were more pupils around then I think - especially in the first 10 years. I had students as young as 7 and into their 60's. IMHO the most committed were the ones with a genuine desire to get better and who actually practised. That was about 2 out of 10 students. At one point I did have 12 regular weekly students and it was a very stressful full time job preparing interesting and meaningful material for each person. Fitting that in with gigs, deps and studio work was hard and while I made good money it was still about half what I earn now in a far less strenuous day job
I genuinely believe that teaching should be about improvement only - you can focus on a particular thing like learning to read, intervallic exercises or minor modes for example but it is generally more successful if taken as part of a whole. A good teacher should be able to diagnose weaknesses in technique or theory immediately and be able to come up with a number of ways to tackle said problem. I also found that students that played live regularly were much more likely to develop goos strong technique and a voice on the instrument. The slightly depressing think about today's bedroom YouTube heroes is the lack of interaction - there's no substitute for playing with other (good) musicians!

[BassTractor]

Won't give you numbers, as my numbers are irrelevant, based as they are on different instruments and subject.

BUT, I did have an experience that taught me a lot:
My students were almost exclusively of the type who faithfully came to lessons each week, and did so for years and years, with good results.
Then, I "bought" another music school, inheriting its pupils, and suddenly noticed in them a lack of scope, lack of commitment, bad practising and bad results.

It took me some time to realise what the difference was, and it was that that other school had taken in each student it could get, and had not made good, firm deals ("contracts" as it were) with them - - thus allowing for all kinds of slippery slopes, including the lack of building up good practising routines. This of course had had a negative effect on the effectiveness and, more importantly, on the fun.

This experience affirmed my belief on how important the time spent before the first lesson is, and how important the first lessons are. If one wants students who stay, and with good results, this IMHO is at the core of the center if the middle of what's important.
Be very friendly and positively supportive, and paint a rosey perspective for them, but also be very strict with what you demand from them, and do not just take any student you can get.