Dark sounding 6-stringer?

[vl_y]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'm a recovering guitar player, having started playing bass two months ago and thinking it to be the best decision in my life (finally, after all these ugly drop G years). [/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'm playing a Thunderbird now, and it's ultimately the thing I've been looking for my whole musical experience. Except for the number of strings...[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I've played some JBs, a Rick, some Warwicks, some custom basses. From my limited experience, Thunder is the best suited to my needs both tonally and functionally - I defintely prefer its dark tone and passive pickups/no pre-amp over any other bass I've played (JB circa 1970-1980 being closer to my heart than others). [/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]So, the only thing I actually want to be changed about my bass is the number of strings (I like my Thunder VERY much). The whole set of preferences is as follows (from most important to less important):[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]1. I want it to be a six-stringed thing (whenever I'm composing, I have to retire back to guitar now, as I'm used to writing and "playing" two-three parts at once at first). I'm ready to buy a 5 if nothing 6 suits my tonal needs (as it's still better than 4); it will be quite a sad thing to do, though.[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]2. I'm looking for a really dark tone, with emphasized lower-mids and low end. If it's too hard to find, I could try anything you at least wouldn't call bright...[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]3. I will be using it half for clean tones, half - for fuzzy sounds, both mostly coming from a range of Matamp / Electric Amp tube amplifiers. The Matamp/Electirc fuzz is important here because I want mids and higher midrange to be pronounced and saturated considerably (less than lower mid and low end, however) to get grain and growl from these amps.[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]4. I'm playing (very) slow and thunderous doom/stoner/sludge/black metal. It's not about attack or high speeds, but sustain and some tone stability is important, so from my experience with guitars, I would prefer neck-throughs. I'm still ready to look at BOs, however. [/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]5. I would be so happy to have passive pickups. I don't really understand the whole active/integrated pre-amp thing, as lack of overtones in selected region makes it worthless getting it louder. That's a guitar stereotype, though, so I'm ready to change my mind if bass proves to be so tonally balanced that you can get any sound from it by flick of the switch without feeling of forcing something to happen.[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]6. I can spend 4-5 thousands bucks, but ready to go for a 2-3k instrument, if it's closer to my sound expectations.[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]What are my options?[/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Thank you.[/font][/color]

Edited August 14, 2014 by vl_y

[chrismuzz]

Get a passive Warwick and Chuck some flats on it or roll the tone off!

[Myke]

At that money talk to a luthier and get one made.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1408051969' post='2526743']
At that money talk to a luthier and get one made.
[/quote]

This. Discuss with them exactly what you want and for that money, you shouldn't have too much of a problem!

The Warwick suggestion is good too I'd say. The Warwick Corvette I had until recently had a really 'dark' tone. If I wasn't so weak and it wasn't so heavy I wouldn't have considered selling it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Cameronj279

[geoffbyrne]

Pity you don't go for active, as a John East U-Retro preamp coupled with DiMarzio Model J pickups wired in series would do exactly what you want.

G.

[vl_y]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1408051601' post='2526734']
Get a passive Warwick and Chuck some flats on it or roll the tone off!
[/quote]

I've tried Katana and Corvette and didn't like them. Tone might be called dark by someone, but lack of strong overtones makes it dull - no growl or anything. Same goes for any option like turning down the tone knob - it is sacrificing part of natural sound to emphasize what's bass might be weak at (and usually is, due to "make it cut through"-type requirements). Thunderbird doesn't require turning down tone knob to get to the low end side.

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1408051969' post='2526743']
At that money talk to a luthier and get one made.
[/quote]

I had some poor experience with guitar luthiers, so I am more willing to go for a something standard for a guy than wander into the relatively unknown for both me and him. And I don't really want to wait. And I am a cheap dude who prefers used stuff ^_^ . Aren't there readily availible basses to fullfill my needs?

[quote name='geoffbyrne' timestamp='1408057269' post='2526812']
Pity you don't go for active, as a John East U-Retro preamp coupled with DiMarzio Model J pickups wired in series would do exactly what you want.

G.
[/quote]

Same as the tone knob - I don't believe that if the bass unplugged doesn't have considerable 120hz B when I hit the E string, there will appear anything to listen to when I plug it in. And there's no bass in your suggested setup at all...

[SubsonicSimpleton]

You have a pretty healthy budget to work with, and a good idea of what you want soundwise, but have you considered what a six string bass will be like to live with in terms of weight and bulk from a performance perspective, or do you intend to use it only for writing purposes?

If your desire for extra strings is mainly to facilitate writing, it might be worth your while to also check out options like the 30" scale baritone guitars (e.g. Fender bass VI) and some of the new longer scale extended range guitars (now that manufacturers are making 8, 9 and 10 string instruments). Lots of options in terms of scale length and string spacing if you add these options to the mix.

When you describe mixing clean and distorted tones, one of the first things that came to my mind was Billy Sheehan and the way he uses his Yamaha attitude bass - having two pickups with independant outputs driving two different amps - might be worth checking out some of his rig rundown and clinic vids on youtube as he is pretty knowledgeable about his own setup, and his approach is more sophisticated than just splitting the output from the bass with an A/B/Y box.

Six string basses are pretty niche, you should be able to find a used Ibanez/Yamaha/Peavey/Cort at affordable money that you can move on at little or no loss later, or you could grab an SX from Rondo to mod with impunity(assuming from your posting you are based in the USA) - whether you will find the extra strings working well for you is a personal thing that you will need to figure out - no point chasing tonal nirvana if you can't live with the ergonomics IMHO.

[Kiwi]

Ped and I both owned an Alembic Elan 6, not only did it weigh a ton but it was the darkest sounding bass I've ever heard. Huge lows and only a begrudging amount of attack - the string spacing was a little tight IIRC. They don't come up very often but may be worth a look?

[dannybuoy]

Here are the first three options that popped into my head:

- Peavey TL6 - Cheap 6 string with dual P pickups. Can be run in passive mode, which will give a darker sound and will play better with certain fuzzes.

- Mike Lull does a 5-string Thunderbird. I'm sure he could be persuaded to build a 6!

- DINGWALL!


I wouldn't place a major importance on neck through for sustain. At doom volumes, feedback creates its own sustain!

Edited August 15, 2014 by dannybuoy

[Bolo]

MTD.
My 5string mtd kingston was very dark sounding. Single passive humbucker. They make killer 6 stringers.

[vl_y]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1408110563' post='2527247']
You have a pretty healthy budget to work with, and a good idea of what you want soundwise, but have you considered what a six string bass will be like to live with in terms of weight and bulk from a performance perspective, or do you intend to use it only for writing purposes?

If your desire for extra strings is mainly to facilitate writing, it might be worth your while to also check out options like the 30" scale baritone guitars (e.g. Fender bass VI) and some of the new longer scale extended range guitars (now that manufacturers are making 8, 9 and 10 string instruments). Lots of options in terms of scale length and string spacing if you add these options to the mix.

When you describe mixing clean and distorted tones, one of the first things that came to my mind was Billy Sheehan and the way he uses his Yamaha attitude bass - having two pickups with independant outputs driving two different amps - might be worth checking out some of his rig rundown and clinic vids on youtube as he is pretty knowledgeable about his own setup, and his approach is more sophisticated than just splitting the output from the bass with an A/B/Y box.

Six string basses are pretty niche, you should be able to find a used Ibanez/Yamaha/Peavey/Cort at affordable money that you can move on at little or no loss later, or you could grab an SX from Rondo to mod with impunity(assuming from your posting you are based in the USA) - whether you will find the extra strings working well for you is a personal thing that you will need to figure out - no point chasing tonal nirvana if you can't live with the ergonomics IMHO.
[/quote]

The bass will be only for writing and occasional studio sessions, Gibson works just right in live setting for me.

I've had an Oni 30-27'' and some local 30'' eight-string guitars, and came to a conclusion they never sound OK around the bass range; what's more, they feel uncomfortable as guitars and come with additional set of problems. I appreciate your advice, but this option has proven to be irrelevant .

I'll check Billy Sheehan (I don't know who it is ), thank you.

I'm from Russia, and there aren't lots of non-mainstream basses - six strings are really rare. I've got a friend's Conklin GT-7 for now, so I'm not looking for a short-term instrument.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1408115704' post='2527298']
Ped and I both owned an Alembic Elan 6, not only did it weigh a ton but it was the darkest sounding bass I've ever heard. Huge lows and only a begrudging amount of attack - the string spacing was a little tight IIRC. They don't come up very often but may be worth a look?
[/quote]

I'll keep that in mind, thank you. [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1408116262' post='2527306']
Here are the first three options that popped into my head:

- Peavey TL6 - Cheap 6 string with dual P pickups. Can be run in passive mode, which will give a darker sound and will play better with certain fuzzes.

- Mike Lull does a 5-string Thunderbird. I'm sure he could be persuaded to build a 6!

- DINGWALL!


I wouldn't place a major importance on neck through for sustain. At doom volumes, feedback creates its own sustain!
[/quote]

Peaveys? I'll try them. Have seen some around...

Mike Lull is type of guys which scare me (I don't know a thing about him ). No NT (for an essentially NT bass) sounds like a really small shop to me, bridges he makes are rather original, and his name isn't known in Russia at all (as opposed to Spector, MTD, Fodera, Sadowsky, Dingwall and Alembic to name a few). My Oni was made by such a guy and it was a waste of years and bux. However, I'm still considering it heavily, as Mike seems to be thinking in pretty much same direction as me.

Dingwall sounds really nice to me. I felt like passive JB was quite right, and it's from adler, and some Dingwall ABs are passive and made from adler...yes, I'm thinking about them a lot ^_^ . Any opinions on exact models I should look at?

I'm ok with dropping some of conditions from the end of the list and can live with a BO.

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1408118015' post='2527330']
MTD.
My 5string mtd kingston was very dark sounding. Single passive humbucker. They make killer 6 stringers.
[/quote]

Any particular models I should look for?

[Graham]

[quote name='vl_y' timestamp='1408051447' post='2526731']

[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]4. I'm playing (very) slow and thunderous doom/stoner/sludge/black metal[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Sounds right up my street - got any links?