Adding a cab

[SaxyBassist]

Hi guys, please bear with me, I know nothing about electronics people have tried to explain to me but I just don't understand the lingo ohms and uhms and stuff [size=4] [/size][size=4]! [/size]

[size=4].....anyway I have one of these [/size]

http://www.thomann.de/gb/ibanez_p3110.htm

which is great and fabulous and all that, cranks up to a good volume in the studio- but if I wanted more volume say for a bigger venue .............

could I add one of these ?

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Ibanez-P115CC-Promethean-1-x-15-Speaker-Cabinet/T9W#full-des

Answers in plain English please ie...... "loud enough for a pub/loud enough for a village hall/loud enough for Wembley" .... - that kind of plain English [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]

[flyfisher]

Yes, you can add one of those.

(Long version: the amp will deliver 300W into 4 ohms, so you'll get approx 2/3 of the 300W into the combo's 8 ohm speaker. Adding the 8 ohm extension cab will give an overall 4 ohms, so the amp will deliver the full 300W. What a 10 inch and a 15 inch speaker will sound like when mixed in this way cannot easily be predicted so you'll have to be the judge.)

Yes, loud enough for a pub or small village hall, but not enough for Wembley.

(Long version: The extension cab will make things louder but only you will be able to judge how loud is loud enough because there are many variables, including speaker efficiency. Loud enough also depends on what sort of music you play and whether the drummer is an animal or the guitarist turns up to 11. )

[Dad3353]

[quote name='SaxyBassist' timestamp='1408287172' post='2528624']...

Answers in plain English please ...
[/quote]

[i]Easily[/i] loud enough for a village hall; for Wembley one would have FOH assistance anyhow. Just about perfect, I'd say.
Just my tuppence-worth.

[Handwired]

Buy, buy, bye.

[discreet]

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1408288491' post='2528632']
Yes, you can add one of those.

(Long version: the amp will deliver 300W into 4 ohms, so you'll get approx 2/3 of the 300W into the combo's 8 ohm speaker. Adding the 8 ohm extension cab will give an overall 4 ohms, so the amp will deliver the full 300W. What a 10 inch and a 15 inch speaker will sound like when mixed in this way cannot easily be predicted so you'll have to be the judge.)

Yes, loud enough for a pub or small village hall, but not enough for Wembley.

(Long version: The extension cab will make things louder but only you will be able to judge how loud is loud enough because there are many variables, including speaker efficiency. Loud enough also depends on what sort of music you play and whether the drummer is an animal or the guitarist turns up to 11. )
[/quote]

Glazed over at the long versions! [size=4] but many thanks for that [/size] (not that I'm going to Wembley anytime soon but you get my drift! )

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1408288725' post='2528635']
[i]Easily[/i] loud enough for a village hall; for Wembley one would have FOH assistance anyhow. Just about perfect, I'd say.
Just my tuppence-worth.
[/quote]

Thanks

[quote name='Handwired' timestamp='1408289073' post='2528639']
Buy, buy, bye.
[/quote]



[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1408290336' post='2528660']

[/quote]

Cheers

Edited August 17, 2014 by SaxyBassist

[Lozz196]

Yep, take advantage of the distant selling regs to get the ext cab to arrive just before you have a full rehearsal or a gig. Then you`ll see first hand if it all works ok. It`s said that mixing different speakers sizes can have issues, and I`m sure it can, but in my experience of using mixed rigs I`ve never heard it - but then I play punk/heavy rock so maybe my ears are too knacked to tell.

[Doddy]

Big enough for a pub? Yes
Big enough for Village Hall? Yes.
Big enough for Wembley? Yes.

Keep in mind that on bigger gigs you'll probably have PA support, so no problems there.
The only thing I'd do is look at another 10" speaker rather than a 15".

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1408291408' post='2528679']
Yep, take advantage of the distant selling regs to get the ext cab to arrive just before you have a full rehearsal or a gig. Then you`ll see first hand if it all works ok. It`s said that mixing different speakers sizes can have issues, and I`m sure it can, but in my experience of using mixed rigs I`ve never heard it - but then I play punk/heavy rock so maybe my ears are too knacked to tell.
[/quote]

Thank you

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1408292365' post='2528695']
Big enough for a pub? Yes
Big enough for Village Hall? Yes.
Big enough for Wembley? Yes.

Keep in mind that on bigger gigs you'll probably have PA support, so no problems there.
The only thing I'd do is look at another 10" speaker rather than a 15".
[/quote]

ah okay - now here is where I get confused [size=4] - why 10" rather than 15"? and what about 2 x 10" ? [/size]

Edited August 17, 2014 by SaxyBassist

[HowieBass]

Before I bought my Genz Benz combo I was considering trying an Eden cab with my old solid state bass head and read some good reviews of the EX110 and EX112 cabs, they have speakers of the same design as that in your Promethean (a whizzer cone speaker) and they come in at about £199 and £219 each...

http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/eden-ex110-bass-guitar-speaker-cabinet-8-ohms.html

http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/eden-ex112-bass-guitar-speaker-cabinet-8-ohms.html

[Doddy]

[quote name='SaxyBassist' timestamp='1408293645' post='2528713']

ah okay - now here is where I get confused [size=4] - why 10" rather than 15"? and what about 2 x 10" ? [/size]
[/quote]
I'm just not a big fan of 15" speakers, and I think that the 10" extensions cab would give you a nice 2x10 rig.
The 2x10 cab would work, although I don't know how well it would stack vertically with the tilt back design (assuming you are
meaning the matching Promethean cab). It'd probably be fine though.

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1408296863' post='2528753']
I'm just not a big fan of 15" speakers, and I think that the 10" extensions cab would give you a nice 2x10 rig.
The 2x10 cab would work, although I don't know how well it would stack vertically with the tilt back design (assuming you are
meaning the matching Promethean cab). It'd probably be fine though.
[/quote]

So 3 10" in total would be better than 1 10" and 1 15"? [size=4] [/size]

Ah yes I see what you mean - this one http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Ibanez-P210KC-Promethean-2-x-10-Tilt-Back-Bass-Speaker-Cabinet/T9V

No it wouldn't stack would it , what about one of these are the any good? and my combo could sit on the top ....... http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/TC-Electronic-BC210-Bass-Amp-Cab/E8Y

[Doddy]

I'm not saying that 3x10 would be better than 1x10 + 1x15..I'm saying that that would be my preference. I've always
prefered 10" or 12" speakers over 15".

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1408304481' post='2528863']
I'm not saying that 3x10 would be better than 1x10 + 1x15..I'm saying that that would be my preference. I've always
prefered 10" or 12" speakers over 15".
[/quote]

Ah okay - I wish I understood all this! [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]
[size=4] [/size][size=4]so ..... if I wanted a neat little stack would the TC 2x10 work with my combo? [/size]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='SaxyBassist' timestamp='1408304846' post='2528872']
Ah okay - I wish I understood all this! [size=4] [/size]
[size=4]so ..... if I wanted a neat little stack would the TC 2x10 work with my combo? [/size]
[/quote]

Yes, it would.

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1408305478' post='2528881']
Yes, it would.
[/quote]

Thankyou [size=4] [/size] [size=4] [/size]

[Handwired]

[quote name='SaxyBassist' timestamp='1408293645' post='2528713']
Thank you



ah okay - now here is where I get confused [size=4] - why 10" rather than 15"? and what about 2 x 10" ? [/size]
[/quote]Mixing speaker sizes?
[color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2]I'll try and keep it simple, but it may not help.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2]Some people say that if you're running 10"s and you could do with some more bottom end, then stick a 15" underneath. This is what a lot of players do and swear by it, louder and fatter, moves more air. Other say it sounds better to the bassist standing in front of it primarily due to the top speakers being nearer your ears, stand further away and the effect is less noticeable. Also it is said that using 15's with 10's blur the punch of the bass due to the sound of the note played reaching your ears at slightly different times from the speakers, this is because of the speed and amount of air they push forward.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2]All this said, it's what you alone prefer. I agree with Lozz196 about the distance selling rules, buy two and send one back. If you use Gear4music they have free delivery, and free return if sent back within one week.[/size][/font][/color]

[Jenty]

If you want a compromise go for a 1x or 2x12 cab and push a bit more air than a 10inch.
If you already have a 1x10 or even a 2x10 a 12inch driver or two will compliment it nicely.

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Handwired' timestamp='1408342797' post='2529062']
Mixing speaker sizes?
[font=Arial][size=2]I'll try and keep it simple, but it may not help.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2]Some people say that if you're running 10"s and you could do with some more bottom end, then stick a 15" underneath. This is what a lot of players do and swear by it, louder and fatter, moves more air. Other say it sounds better to the bassist standing in front of it primarily due to the top speakers being nearer your ears, stand further away and the effect is less noticeable. Also it is said that using 15's with 10's blur the punch of the bass due to the sound of the note played reaching your ears at slightly different times from the speakers, this is because of the speed and amount of air they push forward.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2]All this said, it's what you alone prefer. I agree with Lozz196 about the distance selling rules, buy two and send one back. If you use Gear4music they have free delivery, and free return if sent back within one week.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

Many thanks, that kind of makes sense [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]

[quote name='Jenty' timestamp='1408358564' post='2529256']
If you want a compromise go for a 1x or 2x12 cab and push a bit more air than a 10inch.
If you already have a 1x10 or even a 2x10 a 12inch driver or two will compliment it nicely.
[/quote]

Ah okay, yes I think a compromise would be good - I have the 1x10 inch Promethean, so if I added this TC 2x12 (which is exactly the same dimensions as their 2x10) [size=4]..........I'd have a bit more bottom end than with the 2x10?[/size][size=4] [/size]

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/TC-Electronic-BC212-Bass-Amp-Cab/E8Z


I like their stacking system - I'll be able to lift them! [size=4] I played through one at the jam last week - sounded awesome to my ears! (2 stacked together but I don't know what size speakers they were) and[/size][size=4] [/size][size=4]I could always add to it later I suppose if I decide to go down the separate amp route [/size]

[Dad3353]

There are other threads in the forum on the merits or otherwise of 10", 12", 15" and more. Mixing speaker sizes is also covered extensively here. The short answer is : speaker diameter alone tells us little concerning its 'loudness'. As a brief demonstration, if we imagine a 10" cone with a huge movement to-and-fro, compared to a 12" or 15" with little movement, the 10" will move more air, and sound louder. Cab designs, also, affect the bass response, so some 10" units give better bass sounds than some 15" cabs.
As a summary, there is no absolute single answer; every cab/amp combination has to be tried to see if it's what you want. Coupling stuff from the same make is often a good choice, if for no other reason than aesthetics, but ultimately you just have to try. Many folks play long careers with mixed cone sizes, others keep 'em all the same. Most of the stuff mentioned above will sound great with your combo. Personally I'd say go for the TC 2 x 10, but there's no enormous reason to heed my advice over any other. You'll not waste your money on any of 'em. Perhaps choose the prettiest..? [size=4] [/size]

[Jenty]

[quote name='SaxyBassist' timestamp='1408359773' post='2529273']
Many thanks, that kind of makes sense



Ah okay, yes I think a compromise would be good - I have the 1x10 inch Promethean, so if I added this TC 2x12 (which is exactly the same dimensions as their 2x10) ..........I'd have a bit more bottom end than with the 2x10?

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/TC-Electronic-BC212-Bass-Amp-Cab/E8Z"]http://www.gear4musi...ass-Amp-Cab/E8Z[/url]


I like their stacking system - I'll be able to lift them! I played through one at the jam last week - sounded awesome to my ears! (2 stacked together but I don't know what size speakers they were) andI could always add to it later I suppose if I decide to go down the separate amp route
[/quote]

Yeah id say the 212 is a safe bet. Not played the tc212. Played the 210 but wasn't taken with it. Would have just preferred a little more push.
I primarily play through 2x12's nowadays as i found it a little bit of a better compromise between the bass freq and the punchy tops. Can always throw a 2x10 or 2x8 on top if needed, but the 212 is usually sufficient for most venues i play.
But ultimately its down to individual preference.
You could always order a couple from the web and send back whatever you don't like. Always found Thomann to have a reasonably good return policy.
Good luck.

[JTUK]

See, this is where it gets very discerning and one man's discerning is another man's whatever..

FWIW... I think 2x210 is enough for a lot of stages... providing they are decent 10''s..
I used to like TC stuff in a shop but have gone off the idea now as I think the sound
will be too processed for my tastes. If you like them, then go with them.
A TC210 should pair well with a TC 212 and the only misgivings I'd have about TC as a whole
is they may rely on too much processing and mapping to get their results.
If this doesn't matter to you because you like their sound and weight, the choice is between
a 212 and another 210..
Theoretically the 212 may be a tad bassier within the stack but can you hear that difference..do you need that 'difference'?
The fact that you pair up cabs will make it sound sound bassier than a single cab to your ear...

[discreet]

Nominal diameter of a driver tells you nothing about tone - i.e. a 15" driver is not necessarily 'bassier' than a 12" driver and a 10" driver is not necessarily 'punchier' than a 12" driver. And so on.

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm[/url]

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1408372007' post='2529523']
See, this is where it gets very discerning and one man's discerning is another man's whatever..

FWIW... I think 2x210 is enough for a lot of stages... providing they are decent 10''s..
I used to like TC stuff in a shop but have gone off the idea now as I think the sound
will be too processed for my tastes. If you like them, then go with them.
A TC210 should pair well with a TC 212 and the only misgivings I'd have about TC as a whole
is they may rely on too much processing and mapping to get their results.
If this doesn't matter to you because you like their sound and weight, the choice is between
a 212 and another 210..
Theoretically the 212 may be a tad bassier within the stack but can you hear that difference..do you need that 'difference'?
The fact that you pair up cabs will make it sound sound bassier than a single cab to your ear...
[/quote]

I don't think I'm at the stage yet where I can tell the difference [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1408372297' post='2529526']
Nominal diameter of a driver tells you nothing about tone - i.e. a 15" driver is not necessarily 'bassier' than a 12" driver and a 10" driver is not necessarily 'punchier' than a 12" driver. And so on.

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm"]http://barefacedbass...cy-response.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks that was an interesting read after I'd googled what a driver was [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]
[size=4]I think I will probably go for the TC 2x12 - it looks nice [/size] ...........[size=4] and the price is right [/size]

[SaxyBassist]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1408362495' post='2529331']
There are other threads in the forum on the merits or otherwise of 10", 12", 15" and more. Mixing speaker sizes is also covered extensively here. The short answer is : speaker diameter alone tells us little concerning its 'loudness'. As a brief demonstration, if we imagine a 10" cone with a huge movement to-and-fro, compared to a 12" or 15" with little movement, the 10" will move more air, and sound louder. Cab designs, also, affect the bass response, so some 10" units give better bass sounds than some 15" cabs.
As a summary, there is no absolute single answer; every cab/amp combination has to be tried to see if it's what you want. Coupling stuff from the same make is often a good choice, if for no other reason than aesthetics, but ultimately you just have to try. Many folks play long careers with mixed cone sizes, others keep 'em all the same. Most of the stuff mentioned above will sound great with your combo. Personally I'd say go for the TC 2 x 10, but there's no enormous reason to heed my advice over any other. You'll not waste your money on any of 'em. Perhaps choose the prettiest..?
[/quote]

If there was a purple one I'd buy it [size=4] [/size]

[quote name='Jenty' timestamp='1408362510' post='2529332']
Yeah id say the 212 is a safe bet. Not played the tc212. Played the 210 but wasn't taken with it. Would have just preferred a little more push.
I primarily play through 2x12's nowadays as i found it a little bit of a better compromise between the bass freq and the punchy tops. Can always throw a 2x10 or 2x8 on top if needed, but the 212 is usually sufficient for most venues i play.
But ultimately its down to individual preference.
You could always order a couple from the web and send back whatever you don't like. Always found Thomann to have a reasonably good return policy.
Good luck.
[/quote]

That makes sense - thankyou [size=4] [/size]