Rhythmic Recall

[iBudd]

Hi all, I hope someone can offer some advice.
I'm currently teachng some private classes and I have a student who is working towards Rockschool grades. In almost all regards he's more than ready to tackle debut, 1, and even 2, but he's struggling with the Rhythmic Recall part of Ear Tests. What happens is, he listens well, can identify which 2 bar passage he's just heard, but when it comes to playing it back, before he's seen it written, he gets stuck. The first bar lodges in his memory, but the second one won't go in. He can do a one-bar phrase no problem at all. I wonder if anyone has any techniques for helping students extend their memory in away that would help him recall both bars? I've tried getting him to 'sketch' it as he hears it in sort of shorthand in the hope that that will develop the ability to mentally sketch it out, and my instincts are to keep working with 1 bar and try and ramp it up. But it seems like when we do the jump to 2 bars it falls apart. I'm a bit stumped.
Thanks!

[Bilbo]

I am not a teacher but I hear some use language as a means of focussing the mind of the student. For example: 2 beats is Apple, 3 is Banana, 4 pomegranate and so on. COuld this be varied to meet his needs?

[iBudd]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1408445563' post='2530146']
I am not a teacher but I hear some use language as a means of focussing the mind of the student. For example: 2 beats is Apple, 3 is Banana, 4 pomegranate and so on. COuld this be varied to meet his needs?
[/quote]
That's not a bad idea. Perhaps creating some sort of phrase around the rhythm could work. Thanks Bilbo.

[Dad3353]

How does he know if it's one bar or two..? Try just one bar, but make it slightly longer each time (2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 etc...). If it's the whole phrase he's to 'get', turn it into a sentence (could be nonsense, could be a line from a poem or similar...), so that it can be 'spoken'. One can learn some quite long phrases with that. This is how children 'learn' nursery rhymes ('Here we go gathering nuts in May, nuts in May, nuts in May...').
Hope this helps.

[iBudd]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1408454469' post='2530302']
How does he know if it's one bar or two..? Try just one bar, but make it slightly longer each time (2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 etc...). If it's the whole phrase he's to 'get', turn it into a sentence (could be nonsense, could be a line from a poem or similar...), so that it can be 'spoken'. One can learn some quite long phrases with that. This is how children 'learn' nursery rhymes ('Here we go gathering nuts in May, nuts in May, nuts in May...').
Hope this helps.
[/quote]
Thank you Douglas, I think the linguistic approach is a good one.

Edited August 19, 2014 by iBudd

[Bobthedog]

As a pupil I am in the same position. I struggle with the 2nd bar all the time. My saving grace at my recent level was getting super scores everywhere else. As the levels get harder I will need this part too. Interested to read the suggestions. My tutor has pretty much given up on the rythmic recall with me.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1408487916' post='2530764']
As a pupil I am in the same position. I struggle with the 2nd bar...
[/quote]
Could I then repeat the question..? How do you know it's a second bar..? What happens if you rub out the bar line between, and treat as one (longer...) bar..? I presume (I may be completely wrong here...) that we're talking bars of 4/4..? If so, how do you get on with 2 bars of 2/4..? Just as problematic, or not..? Genuinely curious, and trying to understand...

[iBudd]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1408491608' post='2530792']
Could I then repeat the question..? How do you know it's a second bar..? What happens if you rub out the bar line between, and treat as one (longer...) bar..? I presume (I may be completely wrong here...) that we're talking bars of 4/4..? If so, how do you get on with 2 bars of 2/4..? Just as problematic, or not..? Genuinely curious, and trying to understand...
[/quote]
I can't speak for Bob of course, but with my student, he'd find a single bar at 60 bpm with a variety of semiquaver rhythms just as hard as two bars at 120 bpm with quaver rhythms. It's the length of the phrase that's the problem - by the time he's listening to the second half it's overwriting the first half in his memory.
But I think I'm going to try Bilbo's fruit mnemonic and see how far that gets us, there must be a liguistic way of recalling a longer phrase. I'll post back my findings.

Edited August 20, 2014 by iBudd

[iBudd]

I thought this deserved an update. I've had two sessions with said student since this exchange, and I think we've boiled down the problems with the Rockschool Rhythmic Recall rhythms into two ideas: Firstly they're just not musical. If I clap or play a more musical two bar rhythm, he has no trouble at all recalling it. Secondly, the examples are really slow. They're quarter and eighth notes played at 80bpm and if you speed them up - even double them - they feel more like an actual phrase and become easier to recall. The trouble is we're stuck with the material as it is, at the tempo it is! All the mnemonic, fruity stuff was bit hit and miss... I think the only solution is probably practice.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Edited August 28, 2014 by iBudd