Walking bass.

[Brandonh]

My bass teacher was telling me that walking bass is really simple and not much too it.

Now that I look at it I think he was wrong.


Any one else here think walking the bass is one of the most knowledge demanding style there is?

[Dr.Dave]

I do a fair ammount of it in Dr Blue.

I do know that it always has a way of tripping me up if I get overconfident or don't concentrate properly so I have a small stock of 'get out of jail free' riffs to get me back on track. Like Eric Morcambe slapping Ernie Wise's cheek. He did that when he forgot his lines. Same sort of saviour.

Have a listen to one of my fave tracks. 'Walk Between The Raindrops' on Donald Fagen's 'Nightfly' album. Bass by Will Lee - heavily processed but the line's wonderful around the jazzy chord changes.

Your teacher is right in a sense - I reckon he/she may have neen meaning it's a style that isn't as scary as you may think , that it's generally a Q of linking set patterns together , and you should have a try.
Like any technique though , competence and mastery are 2 very different things.

[mhuk]

There are some examples of walking bass lines on activebass.com > lessons > jazz

[lukeward2004]

I personally find walking basslines more challenging than grooving along - however im trying to put a stop to that as im working through Ed Friedland's book "Building walking basslines".

It is more of a brain screw when you start tossing in upper and lower chromatic approach notes and whatnot, and as said before, trying to keep it interesting is always difficult.

And Yes, I think you need to know a little bit of theory to be able to do it.

[The Funk]

Agree 100% with Luke on this. Even working from the same book!

EDIT: The only thing that isn't that challenging about it (I find) is the rhythm side of things. Although, if you can't swing, you'll have problems.

Edited July 2, 2007 by The Funk

[stewblack]

[quote name='Brandonh' post='25852' date='Jul 2 2007, 05:53 AM']My bass teacher was telling me that walking bass is really simple and not much too it.

Now that I look at it I think he was wrong.
Any one else here think walking the bass is one of the most knowledge demanding style there is?[/quote]


I'm often accused of walking bass myself. It's whatever's approproate to the song. The only difficult thing in a good walk for me is to smoothly link the whole into one stroll. It's all too easy to walk up or down through the first chord then[i] clunk[/i] as the chord changes and you walk through that one and on and on. It's finding the right path to lead to the right passing note so that the line progresses seamlessly.
I love a good walking bass line but only to the right music and, yep, it does have to have that certain swing.

[velvetkevorkian]

The basic principle is very simple but the execution and exploration can be as complicated as you like.

[Sean]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='25976' date='Jul 2 2007, 12:58 PM']It is more of a brain screw when you start tossing in upper and lower chromatic approach notes and whatnot, and as said before, trying to keep it interesting is always difficult.[/quote]

I'm glad it's not just me! I have been quite vociferous about Ed Friedland lately and called him some very unsavoury names but what he says really is sinking in now.

[endorka]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='25893' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:27 AM']The basic concept is simple. It's fairly easy to come up with a fairly convincing walking line.

It's more difficult to improvise a walking line that stays interesting past the first chorus.[/quote]

"Interesting" is not really the priority in walking in my opinion, as interest and excitement will often be provided by other musicians - drummer, soloist, singer, whomever. As others have hinted in this thread, the priority when walking is to swing. Even if you are playing pretty "boring" notes, if you swing, if you have good time, rhythm and energy, people will love it. As long as you are more or less laying out the harmony and not making total howlers, you'll be ok. The general belief is that a bass player who can make simple quarter notes really swing will almost always be hired in preference to the guy who is making more advanced note choices, but doesn't swing as well.

In other words, walking is mostly about feel. Simple is often better. Initially at least, you have to believe, really believe, that you are the foundation, the heartbeat of the band, and that other people will take care of the interesting stuff. Once your walk is swinging, you can start thinking about making it interesting :-)

Also, don't be seduced by those who tell you that you must do more "digadidums", skips, triplets, or whatever you want to call them. Swinging the quarter notes well is far more important.

Jennifer

[url="http://www.jen.clark.btinternet.co.uk"]http://www.jen.clark.btinternet.co.uk[/url]

[stewblack]

[quote name='endorka' post='26819' date='Jul 4 2007, 01:26 AM']"Interesting" is not really the priority in walking in my opinion, as interest and excitement will often be provided by other musicians - drummer, soloist, singer, whomever. As others have hinted in this thread, the priority when walking is to swing. Even if you are playing pretty "boring" notes, if you swing, if you have good time, rhythm and energy, people will love it. As long as you are more or less laying out the harmony and not making total howlers, you'll be ok. The general belief is that a bass player who can make simple quarter notes really swing will almost always be hired in preference to the guy who is making more advanced note choices, but doesn't swing as well.

In other words, walking is mostly about feel. Simple is often better. Initially at least, you have to believe, really believe, that you are the foundation, the heartbeat of the band, and that other people will take care of the interesting stuff. Once your walk is swinging, you can start thinking about making it interesting :-)

Also, don't be seduced by those who tell you that you must do more "digadidums", skips, triplets, or whatever you want to call them. Swinging the quarter notes well is far more important.

Jennifer

[url="http://www.jen.clark.btinternet.co.uk"]http://www.jen.clark.btinternet.co.uk[/url][/quote]

Yep - I'd say that pretty well sums it up.
Oh and please can I use 'digadidums' in conversation? I love it!

[Guest subaudio]

The basics of walking bass is outlining the elements that make up a chord, root third and fifth, you can make great lines using just these, you can then go on to add other elements such as seventh's and chromatic passing notes.

I can honestly say that "learning to walk" moved me into becoming the bass player I want to be, I was playing heavy rock at the time and although the [i]technique[/i] did not directly apply, by studying and practicing the chord elements, everything began to fall into place, and my lines became much more intresting but still did not get in the way.

Edited July 4, 2007 by subaudio

[lukeward2004]

I find that walking Root, 3rd and 5th is fine - I have no issue with these - but it gets difficult when you get the chromatic pasing tones tossed in and I get all confuzzled!

Im certainly not a good enough walker to improvise a walking bassline yet - i would need to sit down with the chord charts and figure out something at my own pace.

Making a bassline swing isnt a problem for me i find, I tend to stick to simple quarter notes and just focus on making it swing, so pretty much what Jennifer said!

[The Funk]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='26912' date='Jul 4 2007, 12:07 PM']Im certainly not a good enough walker to improvise a walking bassline yet - i would need to sit down with the chord charts and figure out something at my own pace.[/quote]

Damn straight - same here. But I have been lent a book of bass patterns over different chords. I need to dig it out and find the proper title. You might find it useful.

Edited July 4, 2007 by The Funk

[lukeward2004]

I have just spent some time with Dave Mark's online Walking bass videos, and I have to say, they are very good! The PDF's and the videos should give me plenty to practise over the next few weeks.

Also, can anyone recommend any fairly easy tracks with a good walking bassline that would aid in learning to walk?

[jay249]

I learned a hell of a lot from listening to and eventually doing sound for and watching the Climax Blues Band. I think the album's called ''Big Blues'', and is all Willie Dixon reworks, there's only about 3 walking bass tracks but the bass player is great, nice Lakland 5502 too!, i literally learnt to 'walk' from listening to that, and stuff like Dave Brubeck and Blood Sweat and Tears, just listen carefully and try to make sense of why the player's playing what they are, and if you can't make sense of it, nick it anyway!

[funkysimon]

Also some basic practice can be had with Miles Davis' Kind of Blue album, e.g. So What: it's just two chords, so you can practice your timing, and a nice little intro riff that you can impress your non-jazz friends with

[Steve Rickwood]

Although rhythmically simple (feel and taste are another issue), a walking bassline gives the bassist the opportunity to govern the harmony of the music in question. If your teachers definition of a walking line is 'Johnny B goode', then yes, pretty straightforward, but imagine if you were jamming a I-IV-ii-V progression and didnt want to repeat yourself as you might in a blues walking groove - just try it; it determines exactly how much you do or don't know about harmony and the fingerboard.
To play fancy grooves involves stamina and repetiton much of the time, but if you study your walking basslines well it can enhance your bass, or music knowledge to a greater degree.

I personally think this style is overlooked - I was busy playing prog and freakout funk for years before I discovered how weak my walking bass was.

[blamelouis]

I think the hard part in walking lines is to make it clever and musical!
To be supportive and interesting is the challenge ( so the wife says ) .

Check out Jacos lines on the " night passage " album some great lines there and the best lines ever "The dry cleaner from des moines" from the Mingus album.The funkiest walking(?) lines you'll ever attempt !

[Sinan90]

[url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607576"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607576[/url] That's something I did on walking lines on another forum, but the main things is if you lack confidence just arpeggiate teh chords, so a knowledge of chord construction is essential.

[studavis]

A nice accessible walking bass line for a beginner, would be 'Eight Days A Week' by The Beatles. Nice pace, easy to follow and a cracking line to boot that sits in the song well too.

[leonshelley01]

Lady Madonna is a good walking "taster" as well. Walking bass another area I'm looking at to break me out of the pentatonic box groove that I seem to play on just about everything. It's also a great way of linking different sections together.

[jakenewmanbass]

As Jennifer said, Time and feel are the principle ingredients to a good walking bass line as the harmony can be as complex or as straight forward as you like (I was bass tutor at Salford Uni for eight years so I've tried to teach alot of people to swing) Its quite difficult to swing effectively on electric as the generation and decay of pizz notes on upright lend themselves to a forward motion feel (which is everything in swing) due to the fact that in order for the note to speak in the right place, the pluck needs to be ahead of the beat a fraction, this is harder on electric as the response is so much quicker. It can be done, but I don't know many bass players who really pull it off well.
As for the harmony, It's a lifes wok and is a never ending challenge (wich is why I love it) Get a real book and learn to make simple lines that convey the sound of the changes well (there is swing to be found in the notes as well) be really simple at first but be sure that the song is being served well. Roots, fifths, thirds and sevenths are a good staring point as they have the strongest flavour of the chord in them, as your ear accustoms to the movement and you learn the chord sequence (which is crucial) you will begin to hear passing notes that link and longer lines that work through the changes.
Of course the very best way to learn lines and note choice is to listen to the millions of great recordings that contain walking bass, I love Ray Brown, Sam Jones, Scott La Faro, Dave Holland, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter..... the list goes on and on. These guys are all masters of the genre and have encyclopaedic harmonic structues mapped out in their heads which is what you need to be ANY good at this.
Jake

[Mikey D]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='52160' date='Aug 29 2007, 09:24 AM']As Jennifer said, Time and feel are the principle ingredients to a good walking bass line as the harmony can be as complex or as straight forward as you like (I was bass tutor at Salford Uni for eight years so I've tried to teach alot of people to swing) Its quite difficult to swing effectively on electric as the generation and decay of pizz notes on upright lend themselves to a forward motion feel (which is everything in swing) due to the fact that in order for the note to speak in the right place, the pluck needs to be ahead of the beat a fraction, this is harder on electric as the response is so much quicker. It can be done, but I don't know many bass players who really pull it off well.
As for the harmony, It's a lifes wok and is a never ending challenge (wich is why I love it) Get a real book and learn to make simple lines that convey the sound of the changes well (there is swing to be found in the notes as well) be really simple at first but be sure that the song is being served well. Roots, fifths, thirds and sevenths are a good staring point as they have the strongest flavour of the chord in them, as your ear accustoms to the movement and you learn the chord sequence (which is crucial) you will begin to hear passing notes that link and longer lines that work through the changes.
Of course the very best way to learn lines and note choice is to listen to the millions of great recordings that contain walking bass, I love Ray Brown, Sam Jones, Scott La Faro, Dave Holland, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter..... the list goes on and on. These guys are all masters of the genre and have encyclopaedic harmonic structues mapped out in their heads which is what you need to be ANY good at this.
Jake[/quote]

Jake!! I think you taught me! I was only there for a semester as I didn't really get on with the course as a whole. I am now (after a big hiatus) studying at Birmingham Conservatoire on their jazz course.

If I recall we played Periscope and sight read some bach pieces. Just wanna let you know I enjoyed the few lessons i had with you.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='52267' date='Aug 29 2007, 12:47 PM']Jake!! I think you taught me! I was only there for a semester as I didn't really get on with the course as a whole. I am now (after a big hiatus) studying at Birmingham Conservatoire on their jazz course.

If I recall we played Periscope and sight read some bach pieces. Just wanna let you know I enjoyed the few lessons i had with you.[/quote]
Glad you enjoyed it Mikey, and glad to hear you're still learning. all the best for the course
Jake

[BB2000]

[quote name='The Funk' post='26935' date='Jul 4 2007, 12:34 PM']Damn straight - same here. But I have been lent a book of bass patterns over different chords. I need to dig it out and find the proper title. You might find it useful.[/quote]

Which book is this?