Walking bass.

[Tait]

in my opinion they are the hardest bass lines to just to play on the spot. i've got the basic idea right, but i can only play a twelve bar blues in the key of F because thats all I ever practised it in

[Delberthot]

When I was learning I found "Sweet Home Alabama" from the Blue Brothers really helped me a lot to work this out.

When you think about it, it is just a minor scale - the main notes, if you were in E are:

E Ab B C# E C# B Ab

and

E Ab B C# D C# B Ab

Once you learn this shape you can't go wrong

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='jay249' post='28080' date='Jul 6 2007, 07:35 PM']I learned a hell of a lot from listening to and eventually doing sound for and watching the Climax Blues Band. I think the album's called ''Big Blues'', and is all Willie Dixon reworks, there's only about 3 walking bass tracks but the bass player is great, nice Lakland 5502 too!, i literally learnt to 'walk' from listening to that, and stuff like Dave Brubeck and Blood Sweat and Tears, just listen carefully and try to make sense of why the player's playing what they are, and if you can't make sense of it, nick it anyway![/quote]

That'd be a Lakland 55-94 Deluxe...

[51m0n]

Try Fingerboard Harmony For Electric Bass by Gary Willis.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fingerboard-Harmony-Bass-Gary-Willis/dp/0793560438/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/026-0119841-2384429?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193660988&sr=8-3"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fingerboard-Harmon...0988&sr=8-3[/url]

I'm still practising the third exercise, he does not waste any time getting challenging!

If you crack this book you'll be well set up to walk over almost any changes you'd be likely to find. It's a slightly different way of teaching the concept, may be, but deals with 4, 5 and 6 string basses for each exercise and covers a lot of theoretical ground too.

I've been a funk/groove player for ever and subsequently I walk like a fish, yeah i can swing no problem, but creating lines through chords that dont always start on the root, and use passing tones and chromaticism to flow on the way is the real deal and turns my blood to ice

Oh and he exclusively uses crotchets and quavers, no rhymic stuff between you and the harmony.

Good luck!

[skywalker]

Constrcting Walking Bass Lines by Ed Friedland is excellent, starting right at the basics and working all the way through Chromatics, Double Chromatics and Dominants in easy to understand steps.

I've found the most important thing is practice, practice and more practice, even as you become more advanced go back to the easy exersizes.

The things you learn doing this also come into play in other genres, so suddenly a bass line that you thought sounded a little bit wooden comes to life when you throw some of these chromatics in (they come naturally after a while), and your playing becomes better all round.

Edited October 29, 2007 by skywalker

[51m0n]

[quote name='skywalker' post='80799' date='Oct 29 2007, 01:44 PM']The things you learn doing this also come into play in other genres, so suddenly a bass line that you thought sounded a little bit wooden comes to life when you throw some of these chromatics in (they come naturally after a while), and your playing becomes better all round.[/quote]

That's precisely why I'm bothering. realistically I'm never going to be playing jazz, cos it just doesn't float my boat. However I do really appreciate the harmonic knowledge involved in walking well, and want to learn to be able to dip into those sounds compared to the more straight ahead funk/rock/blues type of thing that I would normally play. I use a fair amount of chromatic walk ups in the funk stuff I do as its such a generic part of the style, I just want to find some other note choices though, and be able to run through chord changes in any particular style without always resorting to the root note on the one.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='51m0n' post='80871' date='Oct 29 2007, 05:10 PM']That's precisely why I'm bothering. realistically I'm never going to be playing jazz, cos it just doesn't float my boat. However I do really appreciate the harmonic knowledge involved in walking well, and want to learn to be able to dip into those sounds compared to the more straight ahead funk/rock/blues type of thing that I would normally play. I use a fair amount of chromatic walk ups in the funk stuff I do as its such a generic part of the style, I just want to find some other note choices though, and be able to run through chord changes in any particular style without always resorting to the root note on the one.[/quote]
Funk came right out of jazz so its a good idea to learn the harmonic language, [i]and[/i] it will add depth and integrity to your groove playing. Remember that James Jamerson started out as a club double bass player doing jazz in the late fifties which was the source for that wonderful chromatic approach that he used to great effect on all the Motown stuff. He was the original upright player that took up the electric when it appeared
Jake

[Kirky]

I think the best way to create a good walking bassline is to sing it first. That will give you the musical feel you want, without being constrained by any technical limitations. Then play what you sing. Knowing the theory - particularly the right notes to use to modulate between keys etc - makes it quicker and easier to play it. But whether you know the theory or not, by singing it you'll find those correct notes naturally. Well, that's my humble opinion.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Kirky' post='82567' date='Nov 1 2007, 11:17 PM']I think the best way to create a good walking bassline is to sing it first. That will give you the musical feel you want, without being constrained by any technical limitations. Then play what you sing. Knowing the theory - particularly the right notes to use to modulate between keys etc - makes it quicker and easier to play it. But whether you know the theory or not, by singing it you'll find those correct notes naturally. Well, that's my humble opinion.[/quote]
Humble it may be, but accurate. what you feel and hear are the best
Jake

[goingdownslow]

Hi Guys, I was brought to this thread looking for ideas on walking bass as I am having a go at "Serenade To A Cuckoo" by Jethro Tull, (I know it is older than them but that is the style needed), for a request on a jam night.
I found a lot of your thoughts very absorbing and they have given me thirst for more knowledge, so I have just ordered two of the books mentioned in this thread and now can't wait for the postie so I can learn to tread the path.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='goingdownslow' post='89866' date='Nov 17 2007, 01:27 PM']I have just ordered two of the books mentioned in this thread and now can't wait for the postie so I can learn to tread the path.[/quote]

You won't regret buying [i]Building Walking Basslines[/i], everything from complete beginner to "and this is one I taught to Jaco" in a single book. Brilliant.

[Bilbo]

You can't develop convincing walking lines in jazz for any length of time unless you [i]really[/i] know theory. You can't bluff it... I guess you can get away with a superficial knowledge in many genres but building a walking bassline that is properly integrated is a life's work. Every time you play a tune you are starting with a clean slate and need to find increasingly creative ways of propelling the groove using quarter notes and variations thereof. I've been playing walking bass lines all night for 24 yearsand I nail it about three times a year!

It really seperates the grown ups from the little people!

Edited November 18, 2007 by bilbo230763

[Alun]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='90397' date='Nov 18 2007, 06:48 PM']You can't develop convincing walking lines for any length of time unless you know theory.[/quote]

This is true. There are two types of walking line in my mind -

The blues type ( for want of a better description) - where you walk up and down the arpeggio of the chord or similar, as mentioned a few times here Johnny B Goode, Sweet Home Chicago, etc

The jazz type - where you not only outline the chords but play a line through them.

For the former type, you can get away without much theory knowledge as you can basically "plug in" a shape starting on the root of each chord. The jazz version requires a lot more knowledge and forward thinking as you ave to constantly think about the contour of the line, where you need to end up, etc as well as the chord you're currently on.

It's as complex as you want to make it but I would say that there's much more to improvising a good walking line than it first appears.

Cheers,
Alun

[Sean]

From my delvings into studying walking bass it seems that it is relatively easy to go from unconscious incompetance to conscious incompetance and then with perseverence one can get to a reasonable standard of conscious competance but the top level of unconscious competance seems like an impossible goal and the whole thing becomes a journey not a destination.

And what pepper do we pick out of this flyshit? Practise, practise, practise.

Dave Marks has some good foundation exercises for walking bass on his website and one can assume that there are more on the way. My lines are definitely becoming more fluid now that I have some of the basics sorted and this is a great motivator.

[Bilbo]

I agree that, with a jazz walking line, you need to keep a picture of the overall contour of the line but there are a huge number of additional factors to consider in terms of your overall contribution to the ensemble performance. You lines need to react to, support and stimulate lines being performed by the soloist and the other ensemble members. If his or her line goes up, you could go up with it, or go down. You could also pedal on the root, reharmonise with a third, a fifth, a sixth or even ninth. You could play straight time, a rhythmically independent ostinato that greats tension and holds it until a release or even stop altogether. You could move out of a walk and into a funk or latin groove, you could evolve your lines into a Bach like counterpoint or a totally idependent melodic idea. The limitations are huge but so is the potential.

No such thing as a wrong note, just a poor choice. It's all about intent. If you are bluffing, you will be spotted a mile off.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='90838' date='Nov 19 2007, 02:28 PM']I agree that, with a jazz walking line, you need to keep a picture of the overall contour of the line but there are a huge number of additional factors to consider in terms of your overall contribution to the ensemble performance. You lines need to react to, support and stimulate lines being performed by the soloist and the other ensemble members. If his or her line goes up, you could go up with it, or go down. You could also pedal on the root, reharmonise with a third, a fifth, a sixth or even ninth. You could play straight time, a rhythmically independent ostinato that greats tension and holds it until a release or even stop altogether. You could move out of a walk and into a funk or latin groove, you could evolve your lines into a Bach like counterpoint or a totally idependent melodic idea. The limitations are huge but so is the potential.

No such thing as a wrong note, just a poor choice. It's all about intent. If you are bluffing, you will be spotted a mile off.[/quote]



I *so* wish I was clever enough to know what you're talking about.

I mean really know...

I guess I never paid attention in school music lessons.

Infact I think I usually got given the triangle to play ;-)

[Bilbo]

You probably already know whay it all SOUNDS like, David, just don't know the jargon. It all sounds so clever but its really only about what you hear and not what you say/write. It's just an organic process: you listen, process (using your knowledge etc) decide your options and act - all in real time. It's exactly what you do when you have a conversation, the language (i.e. music not speech) is just different. What all the practicing does is to speed up the process so you can do it in real time and not have to think for so long that you miss the moment. I guess the comparison would be with having a conversation about a subject you understand. You don't need to think about the subject, you just respond. Jazz is the same, if you understand all the scales, chords, concepts, you just react in real time. The deeper your understanding of the subject (jazz), the better your responses.

Its the best feeling in the world when you get it right.

Edited November 19, 2007 by bilbo230763

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='90875' date='Nov 19 2007, 03:11 PM']Its the best feeling in the world when you get it right.[/quote]


You got that right ;-) I'm not being self pitying about it, I just don't think I've got the time, application and temperament to learn what needs to be learnt to feel what you describe... None the less I will try to master some more music theory... it's *so* elegant, like maths, another thing I could never get the hang of!

[littledeucemike]

Walking Bass a?

Yes groove is important, very very important. Just listen to Paul Chambers line on 'So What', the first 4 bars into Miles' solo grooves like no other infact that line he plays in the 4 bars is recycled throughout, a good blues trick. For me when I play walking lines over any changes, I always try to underpin a theme for me to play other things, it's only after about 3-4 choruses that I get a feel for what I want. From my experience keeping a form I think makes you sound more melodic and confident over changes and lets the band especially frontline players know that you have the tune sussed. Have you tried walking along to records?. That's all I ever do (and transcribing) and it helps me with inspriation, something you need in bucket loads to play Jazz..............that and a heroin habit.


Also I found that knowing how to get a wicked sound from your bass (double and electric) is key to groovin like a mo fo!. I copied a Ray Brown line and in 2 bars he just stretched out a major arpeggio, straight up major, no inversions, no drops but it was the best sounding arpeggio I ever heard and it had so much soul you wouldn't beleive because he was the master of the bass sound, check out Stevie Ray Vaughn, George Benson, John Entwistle, Tina Weymouth........all about the sound my friend!!
Hope this helps?!

Edited December 3, 2007 by littledeucemike

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='littledeucemike' post='98085' date='Dec 3 2007, 01:10 PM']That's all I ever do (and transcribing) and it helps me with inspriation, something you need in bucket loads to play Jazz..............that and a heroin habit.[/quote]

I'm no prude but I have to point out that the notion that having a heroin habit is a pre requisite to playing jazz is not only patently wrong (see the several million jazz players worldwide who don't have a habit) but it also attempts to uphold the idea that there is some romance in the fact that some of the great players did have habits. It is not romantic, or clever and all it ever did, to my knowledge, was bring to an early conclusion some lives that could have gone on to give us more of the great music that some (not all) of those that did use, gave us during their short and often pathetic lives.
When Parker died at 34 the coroner thought he was issuing the death certificate of a 50-60 year old.
Please take the responsibility that comes with an opportunity (this forum) to express your opinion so widely and don't peddle such atrociously foolish and mis-guided romanticism. (I had several friends finished off by heroin and its a tragic, wasteful and hideous end)
Jake

Edited December 3, 2007 by jakesbass

[Bilbo]

I think it was a joke in poor taste rather than romanticising, jakesbass. I guess s/he touched a nerve? Heroin is a nasty drug that makes most people who use it less than human. It has no place in society and those that peddle it are a disgrace, whatever their motivation.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='98155' date='Dec 3 2007, 02:25 PM']I think it was a joke in poor taste rather than romanticising, jakesbass. I guess s/he touched a nerve? Heroin is a nasty drug that makes most people who use it less than human. It has no place in society and those that peddle it are a disgrace, whatever their motivation.[/quote]

I see what you're saying Bilbo, i was actually referring to the sentiment, which is a commonly held romantic notion about jazz, so fair enough it may have been a joke, but I feel it needed pointing out how crass and (to me at least) inappropriate it was.
For the record, privately my humour extends to the very far reaches of human extremity, but here, I consider others.
Jake