Down & Out

[blue]

I watched a buddy of mine in a Pro Band do their 90 minute show.

I got jealous because I feel trapped in this local 4 hour bar band level of play.

When you’re in a pro band, with a catalog of hits, captive audience (people that came specifically to see you and hear your music), they know the material and the words to the songs it’s seems so much easier to manage and win. Not to mention pro lights and sound.

For most of us doing bar shows , it’s always a hit or miss proposition. Crowds are usually marginal in terms of overall music knowledge, your band and live music in general.
I am spending a lot of time networking in an attempt to find a recognized national or regional touring opportunity.

Anyone else want to complain about their circumstance.

blue

[Bilbo]

For me the real beef is geography. People in larger population centres can get other players around them and make great music. When you live in the sticks, you can't play a lot of the music you woudl like to because the players are not htere. I work regularly in a duo with a Brazilian guy. We would love to put together something more substantial with full-on Brazilian percussionist but there just aren't any for hundreds of miles. Mostly the same with Jazz. One good drummer leaves the area and it immediately compromises everything you want to do.

So move to the city? Yeah - and spend your whole life making the rent and living in s sh*tty area surrounded by concrete. Tough breaks and I live with the choices I have made but wouldn't it be nice if the people you wanted to play with were nearby?

[Marc S]

For me, it's commitment from other musicians
And always has been

I first played bass many years ago,
and on coming back to play much later - things haven't moved on much in that respect
I get into a band, learn a whole load of new stuff, and then someone else leaves
or the band just seems to disintegrate

Re the OP's original post
It also depends on which city you live in

I'm in Cardiff, which is a fair size, but venues for bands to play are a bit thin on the ground
There are big-ish concert halls, and pubs - with few venues of an in-between size

Most original live music you'll hear tends to be small open-mic affairs, or festivals
Most people who are out for the night seem to want to hear songs they know, and can sing along to

I'm sure this is similar in most other towns & cities in the UK

EDIT: I know several local musicians / small bands who are trying to play original music mostly,
and they are struggling to make ends meet
Of course, if original music is the way you want to earn a living,
it's hard - there are times when you have little or no income
You need a big savings pot beforehand....

Edited August 26, 2014 by Marc S

[paul_5]

I'm close to Manchester (UK) which has a fairly vibrant and varied music scene that I'm not part of.

To be honest, I don't miss the unsociable hours, heavy lifting and arseholes. Generally speaking, things could be a whole lot worse.

[blue]

Well considering the replys, I should keep my mouth shut and be happy I am in a good band with good people with steady bookings.

blue

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1409067914' post='2535982']

EDIT: I know several local musicians / small bands who are trying to play original music mostly,
and they are struggling to make ends meet
Of course, if original music is the way you want to earn a living,
it's hard - there are times when you have little or no income
You need a big savings pot beforehand....
[/quote]

Reminds me of the old joke . . . . How can you make a small fortune out of music? Start out with a large one.

[Marvin]

My situation is similar to Bilbo's. I live in the sticks and trying to find like minded musicians is nigh on impossible... even covers is difficult.

Getting paid is a different matter...seems depend on whether the venue likes the look of your singer or you're a part of the local in crowd.

[Zenitram]

My problem is a lack of talent. I'm absolutely rubbish. At everything. Particularly at applying myself so I improve. Luckily I'm old enough not to care about the gaping chasm and yawning emotional abyss that I am confronted with whenever I stare into the depths of my soul and gaze upon the icy void that is my inner existene, broken and embittered, a hostage to my own failings, a disappointment even in my own mediocrity and in the banal frustrations that torment my true inner self.

Still, mustn't grumble, eh.

[Zenitram]

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1409073135' post='2536059']
Still, mustn't grumble, eh.
[/quote]

Good man. That's the spirit!

[Marc S]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1409073135' post='2536059']
My problem is a lack of talent. I'm absolutely rubbish. At everything. Particularly at applying myself so I improve. Luckily I'm old enough not to care about the gaping chasm and yawning emotional abyss that I am confronted with whenever I stare into the depths of my soul and gaze upon the icy void that is my inner existene, broken and embittered, a hostage to my own failings, a disappointment even in my own mediocrity and in the banal frustrations that torment my true inner self.

Still, mustn't grumble, eh.
[/quote]

And I thought us Welsh were good at self deprecation

And yes indeed blue
Make the most of being in good band, with good pals, and playing regularly
No harm to keep looking for other options too.....

[EddiePlaysBass]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1409073135' post='2536059']
My problem is a lack of talent. I'm absolutely rubbish. At everything. Particularly at applying myself so I improve. Luckily I'm old enough not to care about the gaping chasm and yawning emotional abyss that I am confronted with whenever I stare into the depths of my soul and gaze upon the icy void that is my inner existene, broken and embittered, a hostage to my own failings, a disappointment even in my own mediocrity and in the banal frustrations that torment my true inner self.

Still, mustn't grumble, eh.
[/quote]

C'mon Zenitram, don't hold back: tell us how you [i]really [/i]feel!

I do know how it feels, Blue. I was in a very good bluesrock band a few years back. We were playing good gigs and opening for international acts. It was fun and challenging music (all covers, but it's blues so it's perceived differently from your average cover band gig) and I learnt a lot. Then it all imploded due to personal issues between several members. The singer and one of the guitarists went on with their other gig, which was also blues but mixed covers and originals. They've since released 2 albums and a DVD, have toured internationally and will embark on a bigger tour next year, in support of their 3rd album.

Me? I have told my 4 hour cover band that I will quit after the last gig on the books (in November - 87 days to go) and I have no clue when I will be looking for another band, again. I'll take the break I mentioned in this forum, and we'll see what happens next.

[6v6]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1409063605' post='2535933']
I watched a buddy of mine in a Pro Band do their 90 minute show.

I got jealous because I feel trapped in this local 4 hour bar band level of play.
[/quote]

You're not alone, I've been through a series of bands over the last 15 years or so and it always ends up the same, playing the same circuit of mostly quite empty pubs to mostly quite indifferent crowds. It's soul-destroying, which is why most pub covers bands fold after a while (other than the obvious "musical differences" aka someone in the band is an egoist)

The most recent band is somewhat better because we have a bit of a local following, but you're still stuck because any gigs out of the local area will have nobody there, and getting the "step up" to small festivals etc is difficult/impossible unless you have the right contacts.

Mostly, the play-for-hours in pubs thing is a mugs game, but I still do it because it's a chance to play regularly, which if I'm honest I probably wouldn't do if I wasn't gigging, and on the odd occasion there's a pub full of folks having a good time and the band is cooking, it's still a pretty good buzz. Just don't fool yourself that it's likely to lead anywhere, IMO.

[blue]

Yeah, it's a mugs game for sure. However, I'm out there gigging and getting paid every weekend 2 - 3 shows in some cases when I know people in bands that can't get any gigs or any paying gigs.

My goal is to keep networking for that national touring opportunity.

Blue

Edited August 27, 2014 by blue

[Happy Jack]

Surely it all depends on what you're in it for?

I'm closer to 60 than 50, I have a career (most of which is now behind me), and absolutely no wish to start a new career as a struggling, under-appreciated musician!

For me, music is about fun. I play in as many bands as I can handle - all in my spare time, of course - and in as many ways as possible. And it's fun.

In the (astonishing) amount of time I've spent on Basschat, I've come to realise what a broad spectrum is out there, and how many people are unhappy with where they sit on that spectrum.

I'm just delighted to be where I am ...

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1409146140' post='2536802']
Surely it all depends on what you're in it for?

I'm closer to 60 than 50, I have a career (most of which is now behind me), and absolutely no wish to start a new career as a struggling, under-appreciated musician!

For me, music is about fun. I play in as many bands as I can handle - all in my spare time, of course - and in as many ways as possible. And it's fun.

In the (astonishing) amount of time I've spent on Basschat, I've come to realise what a broad spectrum is out there, and how many people are unhappy with where they sit on that spectrum.

I'm just delighted to be where I am ...
[/quote]

Exactly this... although unfortunatly I suspect much of my working life is ahead of me....

[icastle]

This all kinda depends on what the motivation is behind playing.

If you have a steady income from a non-musical career then you're in a much stronger position to choose when, what and where you play.

I play to live at the moment and it is bl**dy hard, so I just grab each gig as it comes.
Sure, I'd love to be playing every night and earning £500 a gig but if there's only a £50 pub gig available and nothing else in my diary then I grab it and throw everything I have into earning it.

[blue]

While were talking about band " downers" I'll add this.

Since were a weekend band not pros we don't seem to be on the same page with some issues. Therefore we can't and don't attack or address certain band management issues. You know, something is important to you, but not to anyone else in the band.

For example Milwaukee has at least 4 awesome venues where all the international headliners are booked. The Pabst Theater, The Riverside, Turner Hall and Shank Hall.

We're a solid blues/ rock act going 8 years strong. We for well with the bar/ club bookings and the festivals and fairs in the summer.

However, we will ocassoinally see one our peers opening for a headliner at one if the venues mentioned above. We do no more than scratch our heads and say, " I wonder how they got that gig?". I'm just as guilty as anyone else in the band. I do nothing about it.

Blue

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[timmo]

It could be worse. If you weren`t in a band, you would be sitting in front of the TV being bored wishing you were in a band

[blue]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Good discussion;[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Were all different ( age, culture, education, motivation, musical needs ect.)[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]It’s funny I was in a band a few years back with this outstanding lead rock guitarist when the band broke up, I couldn’t understand why he wasn’t out there looking and auditioning like a mad man like me. I asked him why. His response, “oh, I don’t have to be in a band I have other life interest.” He hasn’t been in a band in over 4 years and he’s perfectly happy.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Me at 61, I am still the same kid that got hooked when I went to see The Beatles in “A Hard Day’s Night, in 1964”. Still fascinated with rock &roll, bands, what’s left of the genre and culture.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Money wise I guess I’m ok with or without the band money, however the money I make from music while it may only be $100.00 a gig is more important to me than any corporate salary I’ve had. A corporate salary is nice, but it never meant much to me. Getting that $100.00 for playing always makes me feel important and that I matter. That $100.00 is money made from something I love. Many or most never see a dollar from something they love.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]I believe in destiny and I know even though I’m 61, there is something more in music out there for me above and beyond the bar level of play. I’m prepared for it , I’m going to find it and win it.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Blue[/color][/size][/font]

Edited August 27, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1409154143' post='2536894']
It could be worse. If you weren`t in a band, you would be sitting in front of the TV being bored wishing you were in a band
[/quote]

I know, that would be a nightmare to me.

Blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1409063605' post='2535933']
I watched a buddy of mine in a Pro Band do their 90 minute show.

I got jealous because I feel trapped in this local 4 hour bar band level of play.

When you’re in a pro band, with a catalog of hits, captive audience (people that came specifically to see you and hear your music), they know the material and the words to the songs it’s seems so much easier to manage and win. Not to mention pro lights and sound.

For most of us doing bar shows , it’s always a hit or miss proposition. Crowds are usually marginal in terms of overall music knowledge, your band and live music in general.
I am spending a lot of time networking in an attempt to find a recognized national or regional touring opportunity.

Anyone else want to complain about their circumstance.

blue
[/quote]

Join a tribute band. This is why they are so popular with players, IMO as the talent can go much further.

You can be a decent covers bands and it is hard to get beyond a £1k gig unless you plug into
weddings etc ... Pick the right act to Tribute and you can get far better gigs than that.

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1409164267' post='2537032']
Join a tribute band. This is why they are so popular with players, IMO as the talent can go much further.

You can be a decent covers bands and it is hard to get beyond a £1k gig unless you plug into
weddings etc ... Pick the right act to Tribute and you can get far better gigs than that.
[/quote]

Tribute bands are great for some. The few we have in Milwaukee get great gigs and high scale pay. However, usually they don't gig enough for me. I really want to be out there 4-5 nights a week nationally /internationally.


blue

[Doddy]

I think there are some interesting points here. I make a living from playing and there are definitely gigs out there,but you have
to branch out both musically and geographically.
I haven't done a gig in my local area (I live just outside Stoke) for at least 3 years, and even then it was the graduation ball
at Keele Uni.I'm not involved with the local scene at all. Most of the guys I work with are based in places like Manchester,
Liverpool, Chester, Birmingham, and the gigs can be anywhere.
The other point is branching out musically.I wouldn't get as much work if I couldn't (or wouldn't)play a bunch of different styles
and know a ton of tunes, be able to read, and be able to double on Electric and Upright. Consequently, I've played everything from
standard function band sets to theatre shows, jazz standards to sequence dancing, and pub rock to big band.
It's hard work but it's doable-I've been doing this for a living for 15 years now, and my Dad's been doing the same for nearly 40.