Machines Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Tee' post='257280' date='Aug 7 2008, 03:03 PM']Has anyone played a MAG 600 EVO II head? I'm considering getting a cheaper head for gigging, but i've read reviews that they don't sound like their full wattage potential. It could just be user error i guess. The 300 is pretty popular on HC reviews and as i said above i liked the 4x10 combo (MAG 300) version i tried. I'd like the 600 as i'll be using an 8ohm 210 cab. The 300 might not cut it.[/quote] What cab is it you have ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 (edited) [quote name='AndyMartin' post='257762' date='Aug 8 2008, 08:13 AM']Here we go again. If it's older it must be better. That old chestnut again. Makes you wonder why any manufacturer bothers spending money on R & D. I'm not sure who you were speaking to at Ashdown, but I've got an EVO II which is quite clearly marked Made in England.[/quote] Im pretty sure they are now only put together in England but all the components like circuit boards, PSU etc come from China. I know the older models were built over here though but even when i got my ABM head it said made in England but i know it was only put together over here because i asked Ashdown about it. Thats was three years ago. Its only the New Klystron series that are really made over here. Edited August 8, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I have one of the big Klystrons and have played it through my Markbass 4x10/2x10 rig and it sounds massive. Lots of punch, thump and clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='257785' date='Aug 8 2008, 08:58 AM']Im pretty sure they are now only put together in England but all the components like circuit boards, PSU etc come from China.[/quote] Maybe, but that's nothing new. When a product has Made in XXXXX written on it, it is referring to the country where final assembly takes place and most value is added. When Ashdown started up in the 1990s most of the internal components would have been made overseas even then. Manufacturers buy components from the cheapest source, and since the 1970s that would most likely have been from a factory somewhere in Asia. They will only make themselves what they can't source off the shelf, and an amplifier is not exactly cutting edge technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Machines' post='257769' date='Aug 8 2008, 08:20 AM']What cab is it you have ?[/quote] Aguilar DB210, pretty decent/efficient MAX SPL: 124 dB Sensitivity: 98 dB 1W 1M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='AndyMartin' post='257806' date='Aug 8 2008, 09:23 AM']Maybe, but that's nothing new. When a product has Made in XXXXX written on it, it is referring to the country where final assembly takes place and most value is added. When Ashdown started up in the 1990s most of the internal components would have been made overseas even then. Manufacturers buy components from the cheapest source, and since the 1970s that would most likely have been from a factory somewhere in Asia. They will only make themselves what they can't source off the shelf, and an amplifier is not exactly cutting edge technology.[/quote] Hmmm, some companies use the phrase "assembled in" rather than made in. I wouldn't expect many companies to make the components themselves anyway but im talking about practically ever thing inside the amp. Its just all screwed together over here. If you look at Ashdowns reputation it seems to dip around the time they started using pre assembled parts from china. Nothing wrong IMO with using China (and i know a lot of companies do) but there does seem to be a reason why the Klytrons are made over here. So, while i dont agree if its old it must be better it certainly seems to me that the older heads have been more reliable than the later versions. "Seems" being the operative word. IME & IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Both Ashdown and Ampeg aquired a really bad rep for reliability when assembly was moved to china. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='257821' date='Aug 8 2008, 09:42 AM']If you look at Ashdowns reputation it seems to dip around the time they started using pre assembled parts from china. Nothing wrong IMO with using China (and i know a lot of companies do) but there does seem to be a reason why the Klytrons are made over here.[/quote] What gets me is that the Klystrons are specwise, exactly the same as the ABMs. The only obvious difference is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same internal components. So what are you getting extra for the cash ? The prestige of saying it was UK made ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Machines' post='257850' date='Aug 8 2008, 10:11 AM']So what are you getting extra for the cash ? The prestige of saying it was UK made ?[/quote] But everyone knows this makes it sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='johnnylager' post='257892' date='Aug 8 2008, 10:50 AM']But everyone knows this makes it sound better.[/quote] They also have a the words"made EVEN BETTER in England" on them ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Machines' post='257850' date='Aug 8 2008, 10:11 AM']What gets me is that the Klystrons are specwise, exactly the same as the ABMs. The only obvious difference is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same internal components. So what are you getting extra for the cash ? The prestige of saying it was UK made ?[/quote] I've A/B'd the current ABM and Klystron heads and they have quite different sounds. The Klystron is a lot more lively and responsive, with the dials 'flat' it has a lot more top end and I get the impression that they have extended the frequency response of the head with greater lows and highs. Although they have branded it as the 'Classic' range I would say that the sound is anything but classic. The ABM serves a better sound for people after a more vintage/classic/thumpy amp sound. The Klystron can be dialled in to sound like an ABM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 All this talk of ABM's is now making me want to try one again. Id love to hear one through my 1212L. Must resist though as i cant really afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Am picking my Berg NV610 up this weekend. Cant wait to try it with my Klystron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfer Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I have an old mag 400 combo with 15 inch driver, very happy with the sound been my main rig for the last 7yrs wooly would not be a word that i would use to describe it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='257821' date='Aug 8 2008, 09:42 AM']Hmmm, some companies use the phrase "assembled in" rather than made in. I wouldn't expect many companies to make the components themselves anyway but im talking about practically ever thing inside the amp. Its just all screwed together over here.[/quote] An amplifier isn't something that's "just screwed together". Whether you call the manufacturing process "making" or "assembling" it's pretty much the same thing. Assembly (or making), testing and QC are the most time consuming and expensive part of making a product like an amplifier if using western labour. There is very limited scope for building sub-assemblies, maybe the PCBs and front panel, not much else, and they would still go through the same QC process in the UK plant even if they were bought in from China. I doubt if you could pinpoint a time when the majority of an ABM became Chinese rather than UK made and without examining every component I doubt if you could state accurately whether any of it was made in China. The reliability problems Ashdown had for a while (and now overcome AFAIK) are a result of a failure of Ashdown's Quality Control rather than a problem caused by the country of manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 (edited) [quote name='AndyMartin' post='258049' date='Aug 8 2008, 01:23 PM']An amplifier isn't something that's "just screwed together". Whether you call the manufacturing process "making" or "assembling" it's pretty much the same thing. Assembly (or making), testing and QC are the most time consuming and expensive part of making a product like an amplifier if using western labour. There is very limited scope for building sub-assemblies, maybe the PCBs and front panel, not much else, and they would still go through the same QC process in the UK plant even if they were bought in from China. I doubt if you could pinpoint a time when the majority of an ABM became Chinese rather than UK made and without examining every component I doubt if you could state accurately whether any of it was made in China. The reliability problems Ashdown had for a while (and now overcome AFAIK) are a result of a failure of Ashdown's Quality Control rather than a problem caused by the country of manufacture.[/quote] The difference as i see it is that in the past Ashdown would make all or a lot of the PCBS and PSU's up themselves in the factory. Now they get the PCBs already put together (as you say) and assemble the whole lot together over here. I would like to know why they make a big dela about the Klystrons being made over if its all the same thing. Yes, its not a problem where it come from if it works so we agree on that at least. I do think that the switch was what caused the quality control to get a bit poor though. I could pin point more or less when Ashdown moved to China as i had an email from them stating that as from now etc but i dont know where it is now. Doubt i still have it. It came about when i ordered a MAG30 C-115 and it was delayed. I emailed Ashdown to ask if i could come and pick it up from them rather than it being delivered to the Bass Centre and then out to me and they said they were waiting for the new shipment to come in and explained about China. I think it was around end of 2003 but cant be sure. Still, im not bothered really, just was pointing out that unlike the older ABM EVO's the EVOII's might not be made the same way. Edited August 8, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I'm not that bothered either but the point I'm trying to make is that what you dismiss as just "assembly" is probably the most important part of the whole process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='AndyMartin' post='258081' date='Aug 8 2008, 01:45 PM']I'm not that bothered either but the point I'm trying to make is that what you dismiss as just "assembly" is probably the most important part of the whole process.[/quote] I wasnt aware i was dismissing anything. I was just trying to define the difference between Made in and Assembled in. I dont think i ever said it wasn't important did i? Assembly is of course important but we have final assembly and the assembly of the components on the PCB. To me both are important but thinking about your statement i would say the PCB would be a lot harder to fix if one transistor or solder joint became faulty compared with if a whole PCB came loose or a knob fell off. We seem to be agreeing on everything else, just disagreeing over the use of these words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='258091' date='Aug 8 2008, 01:57 PM']I wasnt aware i was dismissing anything. I was just trying to define the difference between Made in and Assembled in. I dont think i ever said it wasn't important did i? We seem to be agreeing on everything else, just disagreeing over the use of these words.[/quote] I don't think there is a definitive difference between "Made In" or "Assembled In", It's just what the guy who designs the labelling on the panel feels like putting on there and we could probably discuss it all day without ever agreeing. My ABM has a Union Jack on it so that's good enough for me. I can feel good about buying UK made On another note, I use mine with a 1212L and it sounds damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='AndyMartin' post='258081' date='Aug 8 2008, 01:45 PM']I'm not that bothered either but the point I'm trying to make is that what you regard as just "assembly" is probably the most important part of the whole process.[/quote] There. Fixed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='AndyMartin' post='258118' date='Aug 8 2008, 02:10 PM']I don't think there is a definitive difference between "Made In" or "Assembled In", It's just what the guy who designs the labelling on the panel feels like putting on there and we could probably discuss it all day without ever agreeing. My ABM has a Union Jack on it so that's good enough for me. I can feel good about buying UK made On another note, I use mine with a 1212L and it sounds damn good.[/quote] Yeah, lets just leave it. A i posted earlier i wasn't too happy with my 1210R and ABM but i think my tastes and tone have changed in the past 3 years i can imagine me now liking a ABM again, especially with the fuller sounding 1212L i have. Quite fancy the tube preamp. I di dmake goo duse of that on my old ABM. One thing i wont get is the 300watt version. I found that to be a bit on the quiet side, even compared to my MAG that was rated the same. felt i was pushing it quite a bit on a lot of gigs. Ill see how the finances go later in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabootsy Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 just because something is made in the uk doesnt make it better to me remember the austin maxi,metro, montego all sh*te and gone to the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='dabootsy' post='258212' date='Aug 8 2008, 03:30 PM']just because something is made in the uk doesnt make it better to me remember the austin maxi,metro, montego all sh*te and gone to the wall[/quote] So that settles that then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 What about an Austin Allegro with 'go faster' stripes and a woman on the bonnet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceuggy Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Tee' post='258308' date='Aug 8 2008, 04:50 PM']What about an Austin Allegro with 'go faster' stripes and a woman on the bonnet? [/quote] You can forget the Allegro and the go faster stripes, but I'll take woman off the bonnet for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.