discreet Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 [quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1410786996' post='2553089'] You need to be careful with B&Q cutting service though. They may not be as accurate as you'd like. [/quote] Read 'not accurate at all' - to the point of being useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1410787253' post='2553091'] Read 'not accurate at all' - to the point of being useless. [/quote] Quite. Probably make a better job of it using a good handsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1410795296' post='2553217'] Quite. Probably make a better job of it using a good handsaw. [/quote] OTOH if you go to a decent timber merchant they'll be able to cut *far* more accurately than you can with a hand saw (unless you go get one of those fancy saw guides or mess about clamping guide battens to everything) The OP only has a cordless jigsaw anyway, which will make getting decent straight cuts for the joints very hard indeed IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1410812905' post='2553550'] OTOH if you go to a decent timber merchant they'll be able to cut *far* more accurately than you can with a hand saw (unless you go get one of those fancy saw guides or mess about clamping guide battens to everything) The OP only has a cordless jigsaw anyway, which will make getting decent straight cuts for the joints very hard indeed IME. [/quote] My experience of B&Q has never been a good one...it's why I never went near them for any building/construction projects. A good timber merchant is a different thing all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1410812905' post='2553550'] OTOH if you go to a decent timber merchant they'll be able to cut *far* more accurately than you can with a hand saw [/quote]Not if you make one of these, which will give accuracy of 1mm over a 120cm cut: It doesn't even cost anything, you make it from leftovers from the build material. [quote]The OP only has a cordless jigsaw anyway, which will make getting decent straight cuts for the joints very hard indeed IME. [/quote]+1. A jigsaw is fine for its intended purpose, cutting round shapes. It's not worth squat for straight lines or long cuts. Edited September 15, 2014 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fasting showman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think the timber merchant will usually have a circular saw table with an adjustable fence that will insure a square cut; this is unlike the vertical saws that some DIY sheds have. I used Travis Perkins last year for a cab I built and their cutting was very accurate, it made the build a doddle. I also used a hand plane for radiusing, it went better than I expected as birch works well. The top veneers can flake a bit so careful how you handle the panels while they are un-radiused if that makes sense. Good luck, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1410817655' post='2553626'] Not if you make one of these, which will give accuracy of 1mm over a 120cm cut: [/quote] Yeah, fair point, but I guess that's what I meant by "mess about clamping battens to everything" [size=4] [/size] [size=4]I've made a jig like that before, and it does work well provided you happen to have perfectly square leftovers of the right dimensions around, I was just trying to point out that with the tools available to them, the OP is unlikely to do better than a trained operator on an industrial panel saw.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1410853555' post='2553767'] [size=4]I've made a jig like that before, and it does work well provided you happen to have perfectly square leftovers of the right dimensions around, I was just trying to point out that with the tools available to them, the OP is unlikely to do better than a trained operator on an industrial panel saw.[/size] [/quote]All you need is one piece of stock with the factory edge on one side, which becomes the upper piece guide edge. The saw itself cuts the sled base after the two pieces are assembled, giving a perfect zero clearance cutting line. The only other tools required are a screwdriver and drill, as the sled can be screwed to the piece to be cut, the holes filled later. IME most industrial panel saws are lucky to give 4mm dimensional accuracy, with only plus/minus 1 degree tolerance with respect to square. That can result in 1cm of drift on a 60cm cut. I would only trust a merchant to cut raw plywood to 1cm oversized blanks to allow them to be transported home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I must have been lucky then, because I've used my local B&Q to cut sheet timber down a few times now and found their cuts to be true and square and easily as good as I can manage with a sled like the one Bill mentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Matt Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 The jig would be brilliant if I had a circular saw... but I don't. Also, no power out in the shed, and no safe way to get power out there, hence any power tools I have need to be cordless. Travis Perkins sounds like the ideal place to get stuff - they seem to have the righy ply in stock, and if they can cut to size also then that's going to be even better. It's an hour round trip, but probably worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='Magic Matt' timestamp='1410878581' post='2554208'] The jig would be brilliant if I had a circular saw... but I don't. Also, no power out in the shed, and no safe way to get power out there, hence any power tools I have need to be cordless. [/quote]This is what use, with a good Freud blade: http://www.lowes.com/pd_37452-70-PC18CSL_4294607774__?productId=3478871&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo= This is the way to buy it: http://www.lowes.com/pd_518739-34252-PCCK405N4_0__?productId=50078420&Ntt=power+tool+combo+kits&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dpower%2Btool%2Bcombo%2Bkits&facetInfo= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If your timber merchant has a panel saw get them to do the cutting, it saves a lot of time and effort and an 8'x4' sheet of 12mm birch takes up a lot of room and is quite heavy. The price you've been quoted looks about right but check that's it got a decent number of laminates in it, the more the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='Magic Matt' timestamp='1410365239' post='2548616'] The local timber merchant stock Birch Ply. I asked if they stocked "void free Baltic Birch or similar" and got this as a quote... 12244122BIRPLY 12mm 2440 x 1220 Birch Plywood BB/BB £31.49+VAT Not sure if that qualifies as really cheap stuff, but the ends looked pretty good. I've not bought it yet - I probably wont until I know what size panels I need, as I'll need them to slice it down to get it in the car. [/quote] Check the surface of this, it may be Birch that is surfaced with a very thin set of outer layers. Not as good as Wisa / true Finnish where the plies are all the same thickness. Good enough for a first build. Mr Fitzmaurice's plans work well, the circular saw sled is a really useful bit of kit. You will need plenty of clamps, Polyurethane glue (like all others) needs the work pieces well clamped. You can of course glue and screw, removing screws after if you want. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='3below' timestamp='1410893983' post='2554471'] Mr Fitzmaurice's plans work well, the circular saw sled is a really useful bit of kit. You will need plenty of clamps, [/quote]Built as shown in the plans with simple plywood jigs you don't need any clamps. Use them if you have them, but don't worry about it if you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1410869650' post='2554045'] IME most industrial panel saws are lucky to give 4mm dimensional accuracy, with only plus/minus 1 degree tolerance with respect to square. [/quote] Maybe we're talking about different things then, as that's not been my experience at all. I live near the OP in the UK and I've got perfectly acceptable accuracy from all of them (Covers, Totton Timber and Travis Perkins). Covers have a big table saw not a panel saw. Totton timber were the most accurate - the operator was clearly very experienced, paid close attention to my cut list, and the resulting panels were perfect (within 1mm max) and absolutely square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Matt Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 I've already got some of the Ryobi 18V One+ system, so if I were to buy one it would probably be this, simply because I already have 1.4Ah and 4Ah Lithium batteries, fast-charger, etc. http://uk.ryobitools.eu/power-tools-en/sawing-en/rwsl1801-en/rwsl1801m-en/ I'm not sure how good their circular saw is - I've never used one. To be perfectly honest they scare the crap out of me... Once we start talking about buying power tools specifically for this build though, it makes cost prohibitive. I'd rather let somebody experienced do the cutting (since even if I have to pay them, it'll be far cheaper than buying tools), and then concentrate on the other stuff. I think I want to finish it smooth, paint it a deep metallic blue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Having built lots and lots of BFM projects I can't stress enough that the plans are great but YOU MUST FOLLOW THEM TO THE LETTER. Read them through several times and if you don't think you have / can afford the right tools / wood then think carefully about whether you should proceed. DIY cabs may be less expensive than much branded gear but when you price all the components they still add up to a pretty penny. Why risk wasting money by "freestyling" or by letting someone at a timber yard rush the cuts when a bit of self discipline and a few carefully selected tools will see you through multiple builds. For me a circular saw would be minimum requirement and a router, although not essential will save lots of time and give a uniform finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Matt Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm not really expecting this to work out cheaper than a commercial cab... if it does, then great, but I'm anticipating that allowing for the fact I've never done this before and may make a few cock-ups along the way, it may be more expensive. My aim is to end up with something versatile, fairly light and easy to carry up/down the stairs, and that looks unique to me. Hence I finally decided to build two 1x12" cabs rather than one large 2x12" cab - that way, if it's a small venue I could just use one speaker, and I'd only have to carry one bit up the stairs at a time. I guess I might just have to "man up" and buy the circular saw... the cost of renting one is almost a quarter of the cost of buying one, so seems pointless. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Two 1x12s is a great choice. I love mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 +/- 4mm, that must explain the fit on American cars! (joke Bill ). Seriously most timber merchants in the UK are going to cut within +/- 0.5mm and my experience is better than that. Explain what you are doing and they'll take a little extra care usually. If they mess up then take it back and ask them to do it again. If they can't cut the panels for a simple rectangular box more accurately than you can with a circular saw and a sled then there is a real problem. This is a red herring frankly. Although I have all the gear in my workshop I often get the stuff cut at B&Q or wherever simply because it makes it easier to transport than 8x4 sheets. One tip is to prepare a cutting list and to mark up the cuts themselves on a drawing. I draw out an 8x4 on graph paper and mark out the panels to scale. Otherwise the usually untrained assistant starts cutting before they start thinking and you end up with a lot of waste material. Don't forget to allow for 5mm for the saw cuts if you do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Cheap circular saws from B&Q or similar are crap, I know as we went through 3 of them working up in price progressively and they were all more or less junk - too much flex in the body and footplate so they simply don't stay true when cutting ply over a long length no matter what guide mechanism you use. I now have an old black and decker from the 90s, with a blade that cost about the same as the saw, and it is acceptable. But the big saws in B&Q and the like are far more accurate. In general cheap tools in the US are so much cheaper than here, it's just silly. Make the DIY equation value equation very different for one-offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I hope the Green Evolution Rage is not one of them Lawrence. I have one in the Garage, about two years old and never used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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