Defretting

[guitarjong]

Hi,

I'm just beginning to look at getting a fretless bass. My main bass is a Sterling Ray 34 and I'd like to stick with the Stingray thing.

Having played fretted instruments for the last 27 years, this is a first stab at fretless. I know there is the fretless version of the Ray 34 CA, plus the fretless full on US Stingray. Both out of my budget at the moment.

Not sure I really like the Squier or Vintage fretless options, although I do hear good things about them.

Can't find a used Ray 34 CA anywhere, but if you know of one, or have one that you want to shift, let me know.

My idea is to get a Sterling Sub 4 and get a professional defret on it. The Bass Gallery appears to offer defrets for £90.

Is that a sensible approach? Or have I missed something?

I know about using flat wound strings to protect the board.

Cheers

Jon

[HowieBass]

I can't see any problems with the route you're considering, the dot position markers on the side of the neck will be in the 'wrong' positions regarding where to place your fingers but you'll have the edges of what's been used to fill the fret slots as a guide - will they fill with something like a veneer? If you get the defret done by a professional they should sort out the nut slot depths at the same time.

[guitarjong]

Hi Howie,

Good point. I'd not considered the dots being in the wrong place. Not a biggie as you say.

I've asked the question about what the fret grooves would be filled with. I assume filling is included in the quoted cost, but will get confirmation.

I'll also check on the setup point. If I go ahead I'd get the shop to supply the instrument new as well as do the defret. In my experience a setup can be negotiated, if not included, anyway.

Does £90 sound about right for a defret and fill job?

Cheers

Jon

[Grangur]

Considering the amount of time and materials, plus security in knowing it won't be a bodge job, it sounds like a fair price to me.

[guitarjong]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1410610953' post='2551237']
Considering the amount of time and materials, plus security in knowing it won't be a bodge job, it sounds like a fair price to me.
[/quote]

Yep, I thought the same......but based on nothing more than a gut feeling.

Think this is looking like a sensible option to get a fretless bass, of the style that I want, without shelling out lots of beer tokens.

Has anyone played a Sub Ray 4? Good, bad or ugly? I'm guessing comparable to something like a VM Squier in quality?

How about compared to a Ray 34 or even, dare I say it, a proper Stingray?

Cheers

Jon

[TheSiberian]

Some more things you have to count with;
On the factory made fretleses the ebony or rosewood fingerboard is thicker, in order to compensate the frets's height.
This is needed in order to have a reasonably low action for the strings.
So, on a defretted fingerboard you have to see first if the actual bridge allows you to have this action enough low. Some neck height adjustment (to the joint with the body) may be needed.
It could be also needed a special treatment with epoxy or other hard laquer in order to prevent the fretboard to be "eaten" by roundwound strings.
Best

Edited September 13, 2014 by TheSiberian

[guitarjong]

[quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1410613660' post='2551269']
It could be also needed a special treatment with epoxy or other hard laquer in order to prevent the fretboard to be "eaten" by roundwound strings.[/quote]

Does the use of flatwound strings mitigate the need for epoxy etc? Do flatwound strings still cause damage to untreated boards?

[HowieBass]

You should be fine with flats on an untreated board, depending on what fingerboard variant you get with a SUB you might have a maple board which I believe is harder than rosewood (but then a maple board could have been lacquered which might then need to be stripped as part of the defretting process). Some players use rounds on fretless basses that have rosewood boards and don't see much wear (depends how much you play and how heavy handed you are when stopping the strings). I use raw linseed oil on my rosewood boards (including my fretless Cort) and that's supposed to make the wood a little more durable (as well as looking nice). To defret and fill with veneers plus recut the nut, I'd say £90 was great value for money, especially if they check and level the board for you. You can always have a full neck pocket shim inserted if the bridge saddles bottom out when setting the action.

[guitarjong]

Spot on.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Really appreciate it.

Cheers

Jon

[Paul S]

As a relative newbie and very occasional user in the world of fretless, I would recommend starting with a decent but cheap factory fretless - something like a secondhand Squier VM Jazz or (my preference) Westone Thunder 1A fretless - to see how you get on. You may not get on with a fretless or, indeed, you might take to it. In either case you can move on the bass for very little, if any, loss of cash to either upgrade or forget the idea. But defretting a bass, even if done professionally, will almost certainly devalue it. IMO etc.

[White Cloud]

I would say that £90 for a de-fretting at the Gallery is very good value for money.

I would also say that de-fretting a factory fretted board would be no drama. I know that it is not the ideal way to go, but from personal experience I have never had any big problems using round wound strings on untreated fretless fingerboards ( I have owned a few) despite what many say.

[Roger2611]

I think the defret is a good idea (I have actually been looking at a Musicman Sub and a defret myself purely because there are no affordable fretless examples out there at the moment) I already have a plain board fretless Precision but I recently played a lined fretless JD Custom bass and was amazed how much easier the lines actually make it even though the way to play a fretless properly is by ear rather than looking at your finger positions.

I say go for it

[guitarjong]

Pretty sure I am going to go for it. Will be later in the month before I have the requisite funds though.

I've contacted the UK distributer (Stings and Things) to ask if getting a Black with Rosewood board is possible (to match my Ray 34). Looking on dealer web sites, you can have black and maple board or walnut, white or red with rosewood. I've cheekily asked if a neck swap is possible. I reckon there's no chance, but worth asking....:-)

[ezbass]

I had The Gallery defret my US SUB some time back and they did a cracking job, I even had them replace the front dot markers with rosewood ones to make them almost invisible and present a cleaner look

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/ezbass/media/FretlessSUB.jpg.html][IMG]http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk344/ezbass/FretlessSUB.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edited September 13, 2014 by ezbass

[guitarjong]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1410635453' post='2551536']
I had The Gallery defret my US SUB some time back and they did a cracking job, I even had them replace the front dot markers with rosewood ones to make them almost invisible and present a cleaner look [/quote]

Very nice. Do you mind if I ask how much they charged to do dot replacement?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1410635453' post='2551536']
I had The Gallery defret my US SUB some time back and they did a cracking job, I even had them replace the front dot markers with rosewood ones to make them almost invisible and present a cleaner look

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/ezbass/media/FretlessSUB.jpg.html][IMG]http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk344/ezbass/FretlessSUB.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[/quote]

^like

[ezbass]

[quote name='guitarjong' timestamp='1410639429' post='2551584']


Very nice. Do you mind if I ask how much they charged to do dot replacement?
[/quote]If memory serves it cost £110 all in including a set of La Bella flatwounds, but that was a fair few years ago.

[Wonky2]

I did it myself....... Really enjoyed doing it and wasn't half as dangerous as you may think....

Great example here

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RlTbblPN2nc


Running a soldering iron over the fret melts the glue which holds it in, then it is very easily pulled out with out any drama's....

Filling the fret slots was a lot of fun too, again really easy....
I set a palm plane to a thick cut and shaved off some shims from a piece of hardwood, contrasting colour to rosewood fretboard.... Cut the shavings into 3" slithers and then glued them into the slots with wood glue..... After they dried out i used a nice sharp chisel to trim them down then sanded it all up nicely before finishing with some decent oil.
The result was impressive...... Really. And so easy to do.

I urge you to have a go..... I really felt a bond with this bass afterwards, the result was great

Loads of vids on youtube.... Here is a series, 1-10.... Great vids

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=115gvPzHMqw
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FemEjfWOaDw
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PKlZt55WtiA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b4XL4i4-3D8
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5xrIQp5uOY4
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5N2oxOh-lLk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDvvacRzh0s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3C-x0dpOCM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=isaGSHB9d9o
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQoYd-1zznQ

Edited September 13, 2014 by Wonky2

[police squad]

I defretted a US 62 P bass reissue back in 1990. Didn't even do the soldering iron thing. Just pulled them right out and filled the slots with some plastic wood filler. It worked a treat. I was carefull pulling the frets. Used it for a while and, yes, refretted it before I sold it. You could get a replacement fretless neck and swap it over

[Srwu]

Hi,

I'd be really interested to know how this goes if you wouldn't mind sharing how you get on once you take the plunge?

I have a Ray 34 which I'm thinking of getting defretted at the Bass Gallery (because it's a lefty and Sterling don't do a lefty fretless factory option). I'd really like to see some before and after pics if you have them.

Fwiw, I have also explored the 'spare neck' option with Strings and Things but, although they were very helpful, they basically said they couldn't source a spare neck.

Cheers

Stuart

[lonestar]

Having defretted my old bass awhile ago id say £90 is well worth it

[guitarjong]

[quote name='Srwu' timestamp='1411991840' post='2564561']
Hi,

I'd be really interested to know how this goes if you wouldn't mind sharing how you get on once you take the plunge?

I have a Ray 34 which I'm thinking of getting defretted at the Bass Gallery (because it's a lefty and Sterling don't do a lefty fretless factory option). I'd really like to see some before and after pics if you have them.

Fwiw, I have also explored the 'spare neck' option with Strings and Things but, although they were very helpful, they basically said they couldn't source a spare neck.

Cheers

Stuart
[/quote]

I'll keep you posted. Not sure which way to go yet. I'm basically keeping my eye on the for sale section on here and on EBay for a used fretless Ray 34.....the Ray 34CA FL or even one of the original USA Subs. I think I'd prefer either of those to a new Sub 4, but might end up going that way.

I can't justify a new Ray 34CA FL at the moment, although they seem somewhat rare at the moment. Lots of places out of stock.

I also looked at replacement necks. You can get a graphite fretless Stingray neck from the States, but they are mucho dinero.

I'm in no rush, something will turn up eventually no doubt.

[Srwu]

Ok, hope you find what you're after.

If I get mine done first I'll give you some feedback.

[guitarjong]

[quote name='Srwu' timestamp='1412073113' post='2565292']
Ok, hope you find what you're after.

If I get mine done first I'll give you some feedback.
[/quote]

Just by way of an update. I eventually decided against defretting a bass. Instead I have a Warwick PS Corvette Ash Fretless (the passive model) on the way from Thomann. I understand that it is one of the last Korean made Pro Series basses, which Thomann are selling off at a good discount. Add that it is B-Stock and the price appears to be a massive steal.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='guitarjong' timestamp='1413821930' post='2582371']
Just by way of an update. I eventually decided against defretting a bass. Instead I have a Warwick PS Corvette Ash Fretless (the passive model) on the way from Thomann. I understand that it is one of the last Korean made Pro Series basses, which Thomann are selling off at a good discount. Add that it is B-Stock and the price appears to be a massive steal.
[/quote]
I would say that you have made a very good decision...and purchase. The current Thomann Warwick PS deals are incredible...