Making a Thingray

[dincz]

In terms of playability, my favourite bass is my Cort Artisan C4H. Neck size/feel, string spacing just fit me like a glove but the sound is kind of bland. Upgraded the P pup in a PJ and it's a step up soundwise but doesn't feel as good as the Artisan. I recently bought a Stingray 5 clone as I was keen to dabble with 5 strings.and the sound is exactly what I've been missing but the neck feels big and clumsy and it's heavy

I don't think a fiver is ever going to be my main bass

Based on my own observations and what I've been able to find out, the key to the Stingray sound is pickup position so I'm toying with the idea of modding the Cort with a humbucker in the MM position. I'd remove the two existing humbuckers, rout the space between them and fit the replacement there along with a suitable pickguard to hide the excavations.

If all goes well, I'll finish up with a pretty decent 4 string that sounds close to a Stingray. If not, then I'll have blown the resale value of what is a fairly cheap bass anyway.

To rout or not to rout?

Edited November 11, 2014 by dincz

[stingrayPete1977]

Do it

[dincz]

So what is the right pup position? My SX MM is 165mm from 21st fret to centre of pup.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410613188' post='2551264']
Do it
[/quote]

do it do it do it!

[LeftyJ]

Isn't the C4H already equipped with two MM-style humbuckers? The regular C4 has two soapbars. You're describing a PJ-setup, which slightly puzzles me because there's never been a C4 with PJ. All I can think of is the Cort Action Bass - which shares its bodyshape with the Artisan C4.

Why not get a C4H or C5H instead, with the two humbuckers?

[mcnach]

[quote name='LeftyJ' timestamp='1410690103' post='2551898']
Isn't the C4H already equipped with two MM-style humbuckers? The regular C4 has two soapbars. You're describing a PJ-setup, which slightly puzzles me because there's never been a C4 with PJ. All I can think of is the Cort Action Bass - which shares its bodyshape with the Artisan C4.

Why not get a C4H or C5H instead, with the two humbuckers?


[/quote]

is the bridge pickup at the Stingray position?
No, it isn't.
Therefore buying another bass won't achieve the goal the OP outlined.

[dincz]

[quote name='LeftyJ' timestamp='1410690103' post='2551898']
Isn't the C4H already equipped with two MM-style humbuckers? The regular C4 has two soapbars. You're describing a PJ-setup, which slightly puzzles me because there's never been a C4 with PJ. All I can think of is the Cort Action Bass - which shares its bodyshape with the Artisan C4.

Why not get a C4H or C5H instead, with the two humbuckers?


[/quote]

In the beginning there was the C4H with 2 x MM's. The next experiment was upgrading the P pup on an Action bass - good but the sound of the Stingray clone even with the preamp bypassed has got me hankering for the same sound in a 4 string.

After doing some reading here and on TB, I'm now thoroughly confused. As usual there are polar opposites of opinion as to what contributes most to the Stingray sound. Pickup design, position, preamp. All valid, and then there's wood - call me a sceptic.

Edited September 14, 2014 by dincz

[stingrayPete1977]

I think you need an alnico pickup in the right spot and the right preamp, I doubt the wood and neck etc would make much difference.

[cameltoe]

Interesting thread. I had a C4H a few years ago which was a joy to play- light, well balanced, beautiful neck, but sounded crap.

I didn't bother wasting time switching pickups and just sold it on, but would be interested to know how you get on.

FWIW it sounds like you want a stingray? Get a stingray!

The new MM subs are very light with non-chunky necks.

Edited September 14, 2014 by cameltoe

[dincz]

The plot thickens. I just read this on TB: "I've never heard that Stingrays were known for any growl." Maybe we all have different interpretations of "growl" but for me it's this (as posted by ahpook on another thread)
:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcyfPXF770U[/media]

and that's very much the sound that appeals to me on my SX 5'er.

I've taken the plunge - stripped the Cort and took the body to be routed for the same pup position as the SX. It should be ready by the end of the week. So meanwhile, what pup is likely to give me that sound? There are plenty of MM style pups available but I guess they vary a lot in sound.

I'm going to play around with the Cort pups (2 wire only) and a spare Wilkinson 4 wire which should give me some options - split/series/parallel.

Edited September 15, 2014 by dincz

[UglyDog]

Cool! Happy tweaking I love this sort of tinkering.

[stingrayPete1977]

We need pictures!

[dincz]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410798167' post='2553279']
We need pictures!
[/quote]

This is the best I can do so far

[url="http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/dincz/media/P1000240_zpsf5a25ef8.jpg.html"][/url]


So what pickup do you recommend?
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[color=#ffffff]?[/color]
[color=#ffffff]?[/color]

Edited September 15, 2014 by dincz

[stingrayPete1977]

Any of the branded ones should be good, basslines, Seymour Duncan, Bartolini would probably be my choice, I'd get a John east preamp too.

[dincz]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410803937' post='2553385']
Any of the branded ones should be good, basslines, Seymour Duncan, Bartolini would probably be my choice, I'd get a John east preamp too.
[/quote]

OK, thanks. I did read somewhere that the original Stingray pups measured only around 4Kohms per coil compared with much more on typical "MM style" pups. Are the ones you mentioned electrically the same as a real one?

There's also a guy over my way - actually next door in Slovakia - who does custom pickups for very reasonable prices. His website is in Foreignish though - [url="http://www.electrosonic.szm.com/html/str1.htm"]http://www.electroso...m/html/str1.htm[/url]

As far as the preamp's concerned, I'm so impressed with the sound of the SX with the preamp bypassed that I'll hold off on that decision for now. I might even see how it all sounds with the Cort preamp, which is absolutely uncoloured with the knobs centred.

Edited September 15, 2014 by dincz

[stingrayPete1977]

We need mcnach here to help with the pickup specifics, come in mcnach......

[mcnach]

helloooooo

I don't know much about pickup specifics, I just know what I like...

I like the Seymour Duncan SMB4A a lot, although it may not be exactly a replica of the original. I think it's a bit more punchy and has more clarity to it, while keeping a huge bottom and a great midrange. But I do like the original too, especially wired in series (I only tried the SMB4A in parallel).
I did not like the Nordstrand MM4.2. It felt a bit "woolly" to me.
When I need a replacement, I just go for the SMB4A, it just works very nicely for me.

And a MMSR preamp from John East, of course. The midsweep module is fantastically useful

[stingrayPete1977]

There you go

[dincz]

Routed and put back together:

[URL=http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/dincz/media/P1000241_zpsb1b2f497.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u493/dincz/P1000241_zpsb1b2f497.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The pickup is wired with coils in parallel direct to the output jack at the moment but it's already an improvement. Much more growl rather like low piano strings. The high end Stingray sizzle isn't really there and that might be the Wilkinson pickup or the lack of a preamp - apparently the original MM 2 band preamp has 20dB of treble boost available.

Waiting on a reply from a local(ish) pickup maker and planning to build a Stingray 2 band preamp on veroboard.

Pretty pleased with the result so far.

[stingrayPete1977]

I suspected it would be the sizzle you are missing, a two band pre eb replica would be ready to make and certainly add some top end.

Looking good though.

[TheGreek]

There's room for a neck jazz there too...

Edited September 18, 2014 by TheGreek

[mcnach]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1411054818' post='2556026']
There's room for a neck jazz there too...
[/quote]

no need

[drTStingray]

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1410799014' post='2553290']


This is the best I can do so far

[url="http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/dincz/media/P1000240_zpsf5a25ef8.jpg.html"][/url]


So what pickup do you recommend?
[color=#ffffff]?[/color]
[color=#ffffff]?[/color]
[color=#ffffff]?[/color]
[/quote]

What about a proper Stingray pick up? Available on Musicman-UK website as spare parts (as are various EQs).

[dincz]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1411041499' post='2555819']
I suspected it would be the sizzle you are missing, a two band pre eb replica would be ready to make and certainly add some top end.
[/quote]

Had a play with my amp settings and with heaps of high boost on my rack preamp's parametric + a BDI21 with full treble and presence it actually comes close but that's an enormous amount of boost. The Stingray pup and/or preamp must be seriously bright.

Original MM pickups measure only 4kohms per coil (2kohms in parallel) so I'm guessing they're also fairly low inductance so brighter. Anyone?

[dincz]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1411064430' post='2556171']
What about a proper Stingray pick up? Available on Musicman-UK website as spare parts (as are various EQs).
[/quote]

Thanks for the tip. I hadn't even thought of that. It's an option but then there's the thrill (and necessity ) of keeping costs down. I might consider it if the experimental phase looks promising enough.

Edited September 20, 2014 by dincz