NZ Trademe vs. UK Ebay

[Annoying Twit]

I've been in New Zealand for a week.

There is a very large difference between the supply/demand balance for second hand goods in New Zealand compared to what we have in the UK.

In the UK, there are about 6300 bass guitars on ebay, with there being a huge range of all sorts of instruments.

The NZ equivalent to ebay is trademe.nz. I'm told that it's wildly popular here. But, there are 195 bass guitars currently listed. About 20 of these are a single seller on the north shore of Auckland who sells low end unknown brand basses and bass guitar kits. [url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/stores/so-music?cid=1321"]http://www.trademe.c...-music?cid=1321[/url]

OK, so NZ is a much smaller country than the UK. But, if I calculate the number of bass guitars listed per capita, then it's less than half that of the UK. And if I had time to look at the basses available, I'd say that there's an even lower proportion of interesting and quality second hand basses here. Though, there is this 'custom patriot bass' which IMHO looks interesting and original.

[url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/guitar-bass/bass-guitars/auction-778130325.htm"]http://www.trademe.c...n-778130325.htm[/url]



I looked through for MIJ basses, and apart from some new looking Tokai basses selling for a definite 'price', I didn't find any.

I'm told that in NZ people tend to buy to keep, so second hand availability of instruments (and other things) is much more limited than in the UK. Certainly there are quite a few shops selling a good range of basses new and seemingly having good stock. Prices here are higher than the UK. E.g. a Squier Affinity Jazz will cost about £200 new.

My sister uses trademe extensively, and has regaled me with stories of how you get bidding wars for quite old stuff. We drove past a cafe and I was told that if I went in, I'd recognise some of the furniture in it as being stuff that was around the house when I was growing up. And yes, it would be worn and old. There is a re-use culture here. We apparently sold a dirty old mattress to someone who wanted to use the kapok inside to make things for sale. And when the buyer came around to pick up this disgusting looking old mattress, his face lit up when he saw it! Some old torn bedspreads were sold on trademe to someone who used them to make dog clothes, which were are told were primarily for export. Listing appears to be free on trademe, and you can easily relist if anything sells. But, all sorts of stuff sells because of the seemingly lower supply/demand ratio here. I showed my sister a photo of an incredibly poor condition Yamaha BB1000 that I saw in a second hand shop. She said it would probably sell to someone who would want to decorate a cafe. (I would think it would put me off my lunch a bit). She sold some very large shrubs which were bought by a professional gardener who came around with a team and spent half a day extracting them. They did say that these plants at that size would cost 'thousands' at a garden centre, so I suppose financially that works out for them. My sister had been quoted hundreds for a professional to remove them.

My sister has started using selling on trademe to get rid of stuff that she would otherwise have to pay to get rid of, or at least which would require hard work. E.g. she sold some shrubs from her garden. Putting a new meaning into 'cash on collection', the people who bought them (and yes, people did) had to go around to my sister's place, dig the plants out of the garden, and take them away. And people did. There was a cowboy gardener who mulched some neighbour's bamboo and the mulch went all over my mother's garden. After the gardener didn't come back to clean up the mess, my sister put the mulched bamboo littering my mother's garden on trademe at $1 (50p) a trailer load. And it sold, it turned out to be six trailer loads. And this wasn't in sacks etc., the buyer had to clean up my mother's garden. And they sold. The person who bought them needed the mulched bamboo for some purpose that I've forgotten, but it was something like some high tech composter or something and the mulched bamboo was needed for it to run properly or something.

Returning to basses, I've worked out how to search 'expired' listings. This sold for £100:

[url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/guitar-bass/bass-guitars/auction-769073359.htm"]http://www.trademe.c...n-769073359.htm[/url]

Generic Chinese basses are selling, but for about £115 new. [url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/guitar-bass/bass-guitars/auction-775289045.htm"]http://www.trademe.c...n-775289045.htm[/url] I suppose that would be about the same in the UK I'd guess.

Having searched far and wide, there are a few interesting things on trademe. There's this bass which is claimed to be from 60s Maori showband the Quin Tikis, [url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/guitar-bass/bass-guitars/auction-779351180.htm"]http://www.trademe.c...n-779351180.htm[/url] It's claimed to have belonged to band member Sam Matapare, but photos of him show a different bass



While this photo of the band with a different bassist (Weasel Tairoa) show something more similar to the listing.



Sam Mataparae is playing sax on the far right of that photo, but I have found references that he did play bass as well. [url="http://www.audioculture.co.nz/people/sam-mateparae-and-the-rockin-rockers"]http://www.audiocult...-rockin-rockers[/url]

Edit: Now that I search, there are more interesting things here. This is an MIJ Ibanez Roadster. Is £210 BIN not a reasonable price? [url="http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/guitar-bass/bass-guitars/auction-777435030.htm"]http://www.trademe.c...n-777435030.htm[/url] Prices vary, but £210 seems in the ballpark: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/154621-ibanez-rs-800-roadster/"]http://basschat.co.u...s-800-roadster/[/url]

Edited September 13, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[alyctes]

Interesting post, thank you

I'd like to see more of a reuse culture here.

[chaypup]

Something that might push prices up on TradeMe is that you can't snipe. If there's a bid in the last two minutes of the auction, then it's extended for another 2 minutes, and so on and on.

[Annoying Twit]

I'm not convinced that sniping makes a huge difference. The main reason I use sniping is to protect myself from shilling. But most auctions won't be shilled. I remember buying a Vintage LP copy where I waited until seconds before the end to bid, and won it for the starting bid. No-one else bid. I think that second hand sale prices are going to mainly be due to basic supply and demand.

It seems that high prices of instruments have led to small numbers (per capita) being in the country. In the 70s/80s, it's said that Prog Rock was pretty much a non-starter because of import duties on the equipment that such a band would need, leading to not very many people being able to afford it. Here's a 70s progtastic NZ track for anyone into that sort of thing.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCN1FXUnFP4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=TCN1FXUnFP4[/url]

Though, when I read up on the short history of this band, the cost of the equipment was a major factor in their being ... unsustainable really. The prime minister of that time 'Piggy' Muldoon refused to allow musical instruments to be tax-deductable, and also refused to remove sales tax from record sales, as he said that most of the records that sold were those 'horrible' pop records and he wasn't removing the tax from them.

The Knobz were a one-hit wonder power pop band that specifically addressed this controversy in their one hit 'Culture'. You get to see the real 'Piggy' Muldoon in the preamble, and an actor playing him in the rest of the video.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8frPD7DgqI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=n8frPD7DgqI[/url]

As well as taxes, there is a history of importers putting big markups on imports, making them expensive in NZ. I note that Squier instruments tend to be about 10% higher in price than they are in the UK. E.g. £400 for a 60s Classic Vibe Jazz bass. But, £350 for an Epiphone Viola bass that's £230 in the UK? Someone's making some jam out of that. I see nothing that takes the place of (e.g.) Harley Benton and J&D instruments which are OK but so cheap it's hardly worth buying second hand. A fair number of lower end instruments however.

But returning to the main topic, I think it's possible that what makes a lot of the second hand prices difference is that the UK is utterly flooded with bass guitars, with many of the basses from the 80s effectively still around, and of course many of those sold new in the intervening decades. With the greater cost of instruments in NZ in those periods, fewer were bought, per capita. And hence there is more demand for them, leading to higher resale prices. In the UK, there are huge numbers of instruments out there. Think of all the Westones, Arias, Bass Collections, Vintage (brand), Westfield, etc. etc. instruments out there. Think of the number of times we've seen stuff going for crazy prices but nobody has bid. In the UK, there are just too many basses out there, and not all of them can engender enough demand for the quality of instruments they are. (Not saying they are all good, but even a Westfield P-Bass copy is a lot of instrument for the £50 or perhaps even £30 that they can go for on ebay).

Edited September 14, 2014 by Annoying Twit